that the Man who killed a burglar he saw breaking into his house should not be jailed for 19 years

[LargeDeviation]

He saw the man breaking into his house on a video doorbell, armed himself with a knife and went with his half-brother and killed the burglar. He has been jailed for 19 years.

Yes the violence he used was very extreme, but the burglar was breaking into his home! It is unreasonable to expect a dispassionate response. People should be able to defend their home and their family from intruders, including using force which would be considered unlawful or unreasonable in other settings.

Even if he must be found guilty by law, the sentence should take the circumstances into account and it should be a slap on the wrist.

I think shes read a headline and got outraged

Absolutely mental. How can it ever be right to use 'disproportionate' force?? Think it through. Look up the meaning fo the word 'disproportionate'.

Carrying weapons works so well in America, we definitely want to encourage more death and crime here.

Except you don't. Enjoy prison.

OP, YABU. You don't get to kill people fot nicking your tv.

As opposed to all the MNers who think they are psychologically and physically capable of killing an intruder. Spoiler alert, you probably aren't.

Defending your home, hitting me on the head with a cricket bat as I creep out the kitchen and you're they're scared and react is not cold blooded. So no, by law I don't risk cold blooded murder if I burglaries your house, I risk being killed in self defense.

LOL at people saying that they should be allowed to use disproportionate force!

It was premeditated in that he returned home armed and with company.
If he'd been in the house and grabbed something to defend himself then the courts might see that differently.
It's a sad outcome for all involved. Perhaps if the Police response was better and the judicial system convictions with more severe then people would not take punishment into their own hands.
I'm not sure of the details of this particular case but when we caught and juvenile intruder in our home despite having a long list of previous charges they were back on the streets without a custodial sentence.
Learning the trade at a young age and knowing you'll get away with it only leads to more theft.
We suffered lost possessions, privacy, and sense security in our home. Insurance premiums increased while they suffered no loss.
It's hardly surprising people loose their temper if they've been victims of crime several times with no recompense for the perportrators.

No I totally disagree. He wasn't in fear for his life. It was premeditated murder.

Reading a bit more the judge has said it was protecting drugs. This changes my stance on this particular case. He wasn't protecting his lawful property he was protecting his drugs. There is no excuse and he should be jailed.

However, I take issue with the sneering comments about the meaning of 'disproportionate'. I think it is reasonable to use force which would ordinarily be considered disproportionate to defend your house.

And no, I don't think the same should apply when someone steals your DC's pencil. Home is where you are meant to be safe and there should be far more legal protections for you in your own house than are currently the case.

If I'm at home with my child and someone's breaking in I'm arming myself with the sharpest kitchen knives I can. If I wasn't home and see it on my ring doorbell I'd call the police not rush there to fight.

My friend once broke into a farm building. He was extremely mentally unwell. The family called the police, worked out what was going on and sat him down with a cup of tea to wait.

I assume all the MNers would have murdered him and buried him in a shallow grave.

@saleorbouy Well done for capturing the burglar. It is disgraceful that even with a slam dunk case and repeat offences he wasn't locked up.

So based on a lack of likely justice, who am I permitted to plan and enact the murder of and get away with it? We have someone who breaks into my home, regardless of what they take. Presumably if I find out someone is a rapist I'm ok to stab them as they sleep and get a quit tut off the local police force? What about the other way as per my previous qns? A stolen phone or bank card, personal injury or offence? Someone doing something which annoys me?

However I still think it is right that 'normal' law abiding citizens should be allowed to use disproportionate force (even when it's premeditated) to protect their house

OP, you need serious help if you honestly believe this level of violence is ever OK.

Also, the point at which your argument breaks down is when the victim was running away and being chased down in Ford Fiat. That is not protecting a house. That is murder. The man was running away. There was nothing left to protect. The first time he was stabbed was enough to "protect the house".

He wasn't surprised. He wasn't in danger. He saw someone in his home, armed himself, and instead of calling the authorities, went to his house with the purpose of committing violence. That's clearly intent. The fact that it was a planned robbery to steal drugs isn't great either.

People talking about other scenarios and self defence if you were home, but does anyone actually know what the law is on this though? I have a feeling you still get some kind of prison time if you kill an intruder.

This from the newspaper article in the express: www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1651125/Victim-cheers-burglar-stabbed-jailed

*Sentencing, the Honourary Recorder of Liverpool said: “On that night, soon after you had left and while your partner and child were out the house, Jordan Brophy and three other accomplices broke into your house.

"This was plainly a targeted attack, a smash and grab where the burglars arrived in convoy, were not concerned about making a noise and did not expect to be in the house for very long.

“They were after your stash of controlled drugs. I’ve no doubt your principal source of income was dealing in class A and B drugs. No other explanation makes any sense.

“What resulted was the sort of violent encounter which so often accompanies this type of activity. You were provoked by Jordan Brophy’s audacious actions, but your response was not justified.

“You stabbed Jordan Brophy multiple times to the head, face and arms. He stood no chance at all. Twice the knife broke off in his skull, blinding him in one eye.

“He tried to flee the scene but again was caught by you in the street where you repeatedly stabbed him in the neck. The notion you were at any stage acting in reasonable self-defence is frankly absurd.

“Jordan Brophy was no angel, but whatever he was doing he plainly did not deserve to die as he did. He was a loved and cherished son, partner and uncle.*

It clearly states he had controlled class A and B drugs in the house, I imagine that is why he didn’t call the police and not because he was worried they wouldn’t come. If you’re a criminal and your illegal drugs are being stolen obviously you can’t call the police for help but that doesn’t mean you can take the law into your own hands and horrifically stab the burglars. Certainly at the point where the victim was trying to flee the scene the house and possessions were clearly no longer at risk and so there was no excuse for the convicted man to continue to attack and stab. At the point where the burglar starts running away any further attack is clearly no longer self-defence.

I had a family member who was unwell with this, so am familiar. If your life is actually endangered, say they had a weapon, it's still self defence, even though that's a tragic situation.

To be honest, you can't expect people to risk their own lives in case someone else is unwell. There was a case in the USA years ago where a man took a girl from a shopping trolley and held a knife to her. He was killed, because someone's life was in danger even though he was unwell.

Again, it's tragic if a psychotic person is in this situation - I can imagine if that had been my own family member. But... self defence is self defence (it wasn't in this case, speaking generally).

Sorry I see I can't kill someone who upset my son and took his pencil. What about if it was a play date so DS was at home and should feel safe and the kid steals some money from his money box? Or is the line adulthood? My 18 year old goes into my jewellery box and steals a ring to pawn. When I find out should it be legal to kill him? How about a car on my driveway?

I'm not sneering. It's about what a reasonable person would consider proportionate in the circumstances. It's fairly reasonable that you shouldn't be given carte blanche to give free rein to your inner Die Hard fantasies because you hear a scrabbling at the door.

In NZ, a dude tried to give the same defence when he ran down a kid who was graffiti'ing his fence, and stabbed him several times in the back. Just. No.

Property is property. It's just stuff. If it's your life or somebody else's then that of course ups the ante of what could be considered a proportionate response. If they're not within the castle's defences, with anyone's life at stake, that is going to impact on what you can argue is a reasonable response.

The answer to lawlessness is not vigilantism. That's just more lawlessness. With more righteous attitude.

First question I was asked when reporting a burglary was "Are you insured?"

I was never asked if I was injured.

They never did turn up.

However I still think it is right that 'normal' law abiding citizens should be allowed to use disproportionate force (even when it's premeditated) to protect their house.

Surely by definition disproportionate force is, well ... disproportionate, and therefore inherently unjustified. I mean... that's pretty much what disproportionate means!

You don't get to be a murderer just because someone broke into your house. That's just a stupid way to think. Self defence is one thing, but this was straight up premeditated murder. I'm glad he's locked up. Hope he rots there.

I have never said this level of violence is 'OK'. It is clearly not.

I said that (without realising the drug angle) that 19 years was too long a sentence.

I was incorrect because this scumbag was defending his drugs from the other scumbag.

However in general I have no problem with people defending their own property, including in ways which would ordinarily be criminal. The tolerances should be far higher than they are at the moment.

There is nothing in my home worth more than someone's life.