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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

OP posts:
FloydPepper · 16/08/2022 09:22

cuddlybear21 · 09/08/2022 09:42

Well one way to raise wages for a Tesco worker without subsidizing businesses is by increasing the minimum wage to a reasonable amount. I would say that no one on a min wage job should be getting benefit because wages should be high enough. You could increase min wage and give subsidies to businesses for training workers and hope you end up with a higher wage better trained workforce. But the reality is the Tories really do only care about their financial backers and thats large corporations

I’ve often thought this

you align the minimum wage with the tax threshold and the benefits level, so no-one in (full time) work pays any tax or gets any benefits.

ApplesandBunions · 16/08/2022 09:26

whenwillthemadnessend · 16/08/2022 09:06

My dh is a high earner. I'm part time
In a minimum wage job and do it for fun rather than need.

I'm
Lucky

I said the whole
Time Furlough was a mistake for people Like me I didn't need it.

I have saved it for my
Kids to help get a house deposit. Or
Pay for uni Christ knows they will need it more than me.

WRT furlough, I think the point to take is that state support is a practical necessity if governments want to prevent millions of people from working whilst also keeping them at home and behaving. And that in March 2020, because lockdown wasn't in the disaster planning, we had no existing designs or systems and it all had to be thrown together over a few days, with no extra resources for anything like means testing. So it could never have been anything other than broad brush.

Obviously this is less the case for later lockdowns because there'd been more time then, but in March 2020, as soon as the government decided on lockdown, that meant a cobbled together furlough system was an inevitability.

Although even later on, there's the issue of what impact it would've had on compliance if the resources had somehow been found to means test furlough. Also think how many took furlough for childcare, which actually was a pretty essential plank of lockdown in that it got contacts down. If all those who'd still been able to had all worked instead, many of their children would've been looked after elsewhere and caused either further pressure on the available school and childcare provision or been looked after unofficially by whoever was available.

This isn't a pro furlough argument btw, or even a pro lockdown argument, only saying that there wasn't a lockdown option that didn't involve very broad brush state support. Means testing it wasn't practical. If you're going to prevent people from earning a living and/or boot their kids out of school, enough of them need to be paid enough to comply otherwise you might as well not bother.

XingMing · 16/08/2022 09:37

The current plans to subsidize energy costs are not going to reduce inflation which is the real threat to us all. We shall pay our bills, whingeingly, and looking for all the economies we can make.

But the years of 'quantitative easing' are coming home to roost. The costs of raw materials (London Metal Exchange prices, shipping and haulage, energy costs even before wages) have been on a sharp upward trajectory for 18 months. Brexit hasn't helped, of course, but no OECD or EU country is immune.

XingMing · 16/08/2022 09:38

...look for... duh, rookie proof-reading fail!

ApplesandBunions · 16/08/2022 09:39

But the years of 'quantitative easing' are coming home to roost.

I agree. I think we're fucked because of that and don't see a way round it. Cheering I know.

Walkaround · 16/08/2022 09:47

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Bollocks. It’s a combination of factors, including both lockdowns and the consequences of economic warfare with Russia. It’s hard to take seriously anyone who tries to discount one or the other, rather than accepting the roles of both. In reality, the financial markets are a giant, fantasy playground for people who want to make money out of money and who control which fantasies dominate and when. They can fantasise sub-prime mortgages, money printing, anything they want, make money out of it for a while, then announce the emperor has no clothes after all. It’s entirely up to these fantasists to invent what they have confidence in and when, and how the select few will hoard power and wealth for themselves. At least cutting off gas supplies to Europe and threatening global food supplies is a reality To claim reality is having no effect on the economic situation just shows what a load of crap we are spun by a broken, fantastical system.

Arbitrage · 16/08/2022 09:50

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Cornettoninja · 16/08/2022 09:58

MarshaBradyo · 03/08/2022 21:12

I always thought the after the period of huge spending by Johnson would see a shift to the right

And that we shouldn’t have thrown so much at Covid as we now lack resilience

So I’m not surprised but I think we’ll likely see a tougher stance on strikes

This has been brewing for a long time, before brexit and covid. The take up of in-work benefits was a massive red flag that corporations either weren’t fit for purpose or wealth hoarding.

I never understood the need for the stamp duty holiday as part of covid recovery. It lost billions to the treasury, inflated the market ridiculously (because it wasn’t actually needed) and has potentially left a lot of people paying over inflated mortgages that they will be unable to break free from for a long time.

downfield · 16/08/2022 10:00

WRT furlough, I think the point to take is that state support is a practical necessity if governments want to prevent millions of people from working whilst also keeping them at home and behaving.

exactly, it's compliance

Cornettoninja · 16/08/2022 10:00

In case it wasn’t clear, a sizeable proportion of the population hasn’t been able to independently afford the ‘cost of living’ for a very long time. This is an extension of that and people finding themselves relegated to the same social status for the first time.

downfield · 16/08/2022 10:01

But the years of 'quantitative easing' are coming home to roost.'

I do agree with this, the country has struggled since the 08 crisis but the can was repeatedly kicked down the road

downfield · 16/08/2022 10:06

I never understood the need for the stamp duty holiday as part of covid recovery.

house market prop,

The take up of in-work benefits was a massive red flag that corporations either weren’t fit for purpose or wealth hoarding.

yep why is so much tax been used to help people who are working whilst those corporations get richer & richer

MercuryOnTheRise · 16/08/2022 10:07

@Cornettoninja indeed. In the late 90's we were just beyond working tax credits. The great paradox being that it was because my dh at the time earned more than £45k yet if I'd had a part-time job and our combined income had been less than £60k we'd have been eligible. Tony Blair screwed it and it was absurd. For a very long time people have lived well on income that has been a gift. It had to end in disaster but the next government's found themselves having to tinker at the edges to avoid uproar.

Itisasecret · 16/08/2022 10:11

likeminded · 03/08/2022 21:14

Nope. I would rather have her than Rishi. My NI (tax) has just gone up by 1.25%. I haven't had a payrise so this means I am paying more tax. In the meantime, benefits are going to go up by at least 10%. It doesn't make sense to tax people more who are in work then handing that money to people who work part time or not at all. Might as well give up work and get a 10% increase in income. And Rishi caused a lot of this inflation by spunking taxpayers money on various pandemic schemes. I really don't want him as PM.

Agreed, he was the chancellor who over saw this whole mess. At least with Truss, those working will get tax cuts and her policy on corporation tax means little start ups stand a chance and a better chance of jobs. That’s pertinent as the number of jobs available is starting to drop.

Cornettoninja · 16/08/2022 10:12

I never understood the need for the stamp duty holiday as part of covid recovery

house market prop

oh I got that bit (! Grin) I just never really got the general acceptance of it. It certainly wasn’t needed, the market barely dipped. The promise of profit for individuals is obviously the appeal and why it was generally ignored but the reluctance to accept it for what it was and own it is bizarre. Especially when you get someone who likes quoting free market principles at you.

downfield · 16/08/2022 10:17

I know loads of people who were stuck on the ladder despite good income & equity who moved up because of it & a few who purchased a 2nd holiday home.

downfield · 16/08/2022 10:18

we are moving now & regret not doing it during lockdown but was the wrong time.

Cornettoninja · 16/08/2022 10:20

downfield · 16/08/2022 10:17

I know loads of people who were stuck on the ladder despite good income & equity who moved up because of it & a few who purchased a 2nd holiday home.

Yes, so do I. But it wasn’t actually needed was it? The market hadn’t completely stalled past what would reasonably be expected during lockdowns. There wasn’t a looming crash on the horizon.

downfield · 16/08/2022 10:22

no i agree but I think that's why so many people were in favour as it benefited them.

ApplesandBunions · 16/08/2022 10:25

Cornettoninja · 16/08/2022 10:12

I never understood the need for the stamp duty holiday as part of covid recovery

house market prop

oh I got that bit (! Grin) I just never really got the general acceptance of it. It certainly wasn’t needed, the market barely dipped. The promise of profit for individuals is obviously the appeal and why it was generally ignored but the reluctance to accept it for what it was and own it is bizarre. Especially when you get someone who likes quoting free market principles at you.

Yeah, it was ridiculous. While some state support is baked into lockdown, the stamp duty holiday certainly wasn't needed to keep the population fed and placated.

Cornettoninja · 16/08/2022 11:26

I really hope I’m wrong because it will affect people I love, but I think there’s a real possibility people will curse that initiative for being the catalyst in their decision to upsize at that point. Bit of a double edged sword.

Blossomtoes · 16/08/2022 11:39

Unfortunately I suspect you’re right, not least because it triggered a red hot market and a lot of people will have overpaid.

Cornettoninja · 16/08/2022 11:54

Blossomtoes · 16/08/2022 11:39

Unfortunately I suspect you’re right, not least because it triggered a red hot market and a lot of people will have overpaid.

Plus unless it was a recent move and they’ve been paying attention, they won’t have factored in rising energy costs and the heights that other costs of living will reach.

I’m thinking in particular of one family I know who have doubled their bedrooms from an already substantial house. Both adults are high earners with potential to earn more in a good economy but they’re not ‘elite’.

I just think we’ve well and truly scrapped the bottom of that particular barrel.

XingMing · 16/08/2022 13:38

It reminds me of the late 80s and early 90s, when the property market really tanked. That was genuinely painful, even more than 2008. The stamp duty holiday was uncalled for, and caused a huge surge in property prices which has benefited us simply because of owning our home for so long. That said, there's hardly anyone local who could buy it from us; we couldn't afford it! It has earned us the equivalent of a third (tax-free) salary for the last six years, which does seem unfair. However, when we downsize, BOMAD will set our single child up with a home. Not in central London or the swankier bits of the South, but in most other areas.

whenwillthemadnessend · 16/08/2022 14:00

Houses are stagnating and sitting on the market a lot longer in my previously hotbed area last 6 months.

Particularly new builds that are over priced. Doer uppers are still selling.