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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Are you a feminist, if yes, what does it mean to you?

1000 replies

YouAreNotBatman · 03/08/2022 15:07

YANBU = I’m am
YABU = I am not

OP posts:
Zerogravity · 03/08/2022 18:11

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 03/08/2022 18:09

Also saying that we’d suffer the same workplace discrimination and risk of assault would imply that women like me who don’t subscribe to the stereotypical female, DON’T suffer these things. Which is of course bullshit.

Our biology is the root cause of our oppression. Please stop pretending otherwise, it’s gaslighting in its most ridiculous form

Exactly. You can't identify out of the risks of being female. Not even if you don't "identify" with being female.

risefromyourgrave · 03/08/2022 18:14

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Ooh, racist and homophobic, well done!

Zerogravity · 03/08/2022 18:15

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Wow. This is so offensive it's hard to know where to start. So I'll just ask you this: what do a trans woman, a gay woman and a lesbian have in common?

Helleofabore · 03/08/2022 18:16

These might not always be obvious but as you age, and especially if you have children you are likely to experience at least some of them.

Absolutely. Especially when you realise just how much females are discriminated against while you are pregnant or have children.

Of course, that is just one aspect of a female life. But it is one that is unique to 'females' all over the world and I thought misguidedly that over a decade ago, this discrimination no longer happened...

And then you start processing the sexist discrimination that you have hand waved away in your life.

babyjellyfish · 03/08/2022 18:17

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Whaaaat?

Black women and gay women have female bodies, like other women.

OchonAgusOchonOh · 03/08/2022 18:19

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No. They're not women because they are male and a woman is female.

Black women, gay women etc are specific subsets of women but they can also be described using the word woman alone because they are female. A trans woman cannot to described using the word woman alone because they are male

risefromyourgrave · 03/08/2022 18:20

babyjellyfish · 03/08/2022 17:51

Yes, this.

We shouldn't need to say, "I was raped by a man and I find the presence of male strangers in a place where I am undressing traumatic", or "I am a Muslim and cannot undress in the presence of male strangers because it is against my religious beliefs" in order to justify not wanting to share changing facilities with trans women.

"No, that doesn't work for us" should be a good enough answer.

To be honest, I didn’t say it to make people who think TWAW understand, because they never will, they just don’t care about women who are affected. As long as the men are given what they want.

tobee · 03/08/2022 18:22

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This so much baloney it's quite shocking. So much kool aid being imbibed

babyjellyfish · 03/08/2022 18:22

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 03/08/2022 18:09

Also saying that we’d suffer the same workplace discrimination and risk of assault would imply that women like me who don’t subscribe to the stereotypical female, DON’T suffer these things. Which is of course bullshit.

Our biology is the root cause of our oppression. Please stop pretending otherwise, it’s gaslighting in its most ridiculous form

It also implies that we choose to be discriminated against, because that is how we identify.

Of all the nonsensical and offensive definitions of womanhood, "victim of oppression" is about the most depressing.

It implies that the ultimate goal of feminism is the complete erasure of women, because if no one is discriminated against for being a woman, women no longer exist.

In which case, what were we being oppressed for in the first place? How did the people doing the oppressing decide who to oppress? Just a total coincidence that the ones with the penises decided to oppress the ones without the penises, huh?

jeaux90 · 03/08/2022 18:23

Feminism is a political movement for the liberation of women and girls.

Anyone who centres males (however they identify) is not a feminist.

ReeseWitherfork · 03/08/2022 18:26

babyjellyfish · 03/08/2022 17:59

Every time you travel in a car you are less safe than a man travelling in the same car because crash test dummies are modeled on male bodies and not female bodies.

It’s also hard to know if you were rejected for a job because you were somewhere between 25 and 35. “There was someone more qualified (who won’t possibly need maternity leave soon)”.

Helleofabore · 03/08/2022 18:26

How did the people doing the oppressing decide who to oppress?

All because of how we looked or how our actions presented us as females. Obviously.

At least, that is the logic that I am reading in some of these posts.

cariadlet · 03/08/2022 18:27

I've called myself a feminist since I was a teenager but never really thought deeply about it. I just believed in equal rights, equal pay etc.

More recently, I began to learn more about gender ideology and its terrible consequences for women and for vulnerable children and adolescents.

That's led me to social media posts about feminism, VAWG etc and from there I've gone on to attend FiLiA, join WDI zooms and to read more books about gender ideology, women's rights etc.

I've reached a point where I am far more aware of the patriarchy and now describe myself as a Radical Feminist.

electricdreaming · 03/08/2022 18:27

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Helleofabore · 03/08/2022 18:28

“There was someone more qualified (who won’t possibly need maternity leave soon)”.

yep. Had that one many times!

babyjellyfish · 03/08/2022 18:28

Helleofabore · 03/08/2022 18:26

How did the people doing the oppressing decide who to oppress?

All because of how we looked or how our actions presented us as females. Obviously.

At least, that is the logic that I am reading in some of these posts.

Well then I guess Mary Wollstonecraft and Emmeline Pankhurst fucked up by not realising this a long time ago.

If they had, they could have just told women to all identify as male and BOOM! Equal rights.

risefromyourgrave · 03/08/2022 18:29

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Ok, my argument is because they’re men.

SantaCarlaCalifornia · 03/08/2022 18:30

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Do you actually understand how racist that is? To say that a black woman is a woman in the same way as a man (who believes himself to be a woman) is a woman. That's without even getting into lesbians being the same as transwomen.

Do you really think that Serena Williams is a woman in the same way that Lia Thomas is a woman? (I won't point out who the TW is in that picture, I'm sure you can work it out somehow)
Really and truly? Not pretending to be polite, but actually, 100% believe it?

I don't expect you to actually answer, people like you never actually reflect on what they're pontificating about, they just shout that transwomen are women and call everyone transphobic.

babyjellyfish · 03/08/2022 18:31

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What do you have in common with trans women then?

Helleofabore · 03/08/2022 18:31

If you want to say trans women aren’t women you should come up with a better argument than simply because there’s another word before woman.

Ok. They are males. They are actually NOT like the sub groups of women that you have listed because they are females.

You have now mentioned 'weak' arguments a couple of times.

I have not seen you actually present any argument, weak or not, to prove that transitioned males are like females in any way that matters for accessing the rights, services and protections in law for females.

Helleofabore · 03/08/2022 18:33

If they had, they could have just told women to all identify as male and BOOM! Equal rights.

Yes indeed! It would have saved us all the hassle from the start.

Ludicrous isn't it? That they did not do this for us!

electricdreaming · 03/08/2022 18:34

risefromyourgrave · 03/08/2022 18:29

Ok, my argument is because they’re men.

That’s fine. I’d still disagree with categorising them as men because personally I believe that there is a difference between women and men and females and males, and it is gender that changes for them, not sex. So I would say whilst they are males they are not men. And I think most of the sexism we experience is based on gender not sex, although I know that might ruffle some feathers. I don’t think we are subordinated because we have vaginas, but because we are socialised as women and therefore automatically assumed to be female. I don’t think there are many biological differences that cause women to naturally be subjugated, but it’s because we’re believed to have biological traits that mean we’re incompetent. This is my personal opinion, I appreciate that for others their experiences may have shaped their own opinions differently.

MintJulia · 03/08/2022 18:35

As a feminist I regard women as having equal rights and responsibilities. We all have strengths and weaknesses, but we have the same rights.

As an individual, I don't expect to keep or be kept by a man. I can and do pay my own way. I live my life as I see fit, without a need to conform with social norms, if I don't want to.

babyjellyfish · 03/08/2022 18:35

It's not too late for us though.

If we all start identifying as men from now on, we should get a nice pay rise, lots more respect, and people will actually care what we feel and think about things.

Right?

electricdreaming · 03/08/2022 18:35

babyjellyfish · 03/08/2022 18:31

What do you have in common with trans women then?

Trans women are more likely to be objectified and victims of sexual assaults and violence as a whole. I’m a woman and experience this too. As a gay woman we’ve both been discriminated against.

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