Why aren't people on benefits be asked to pick fruit? Why bring in immigrants?

[quietandcomplex]

Can someone explain to me why, when there are so many unemployed and on benefits, they aren't picking fruit for the farmers? Why bring immigrants into the country to do the job? This is not a political or racist or anything other post, it does not make sense to me, what am I missing?

Well people like you can’t possibly imagine why someone would care about other people, clearly. Ignorance around these issues does make me angry, yes. Especially when I have disabled relatives and am disabled myself. Rude? It takes one to know one, eh?

I think this is a myth. Although I would agree that there are plenty of Brits with a poor work ethic. But they tend to have well heeled parents, not ones on benefits.

All fine dandy and honkey dorey making people work for their pittance. However this could mean a lot of our jobs are actually at risk.
After all why would/should an employer hire some one and pay them the NLW or even just the NMW when they can get some poor soul off the dole to do it for zilch nada nothing. Be very very careful what you wish for, OP

I read in a local history book about a family who came to our village, years ago, destitute, and were offered housing and support in return for the father filling potholes.

However, I suspect that before cars, filling potholes in the days could reasonably be done by almost anyone provided with a spade, without risk of them being run over whilst doing it. Now you'd need training, insurance and a lot more kit.

@Bigboysmademedoit Were you at a farm camp in Cambridgeshire by any chance? The set up you describe sounds VERY familiar

I looked into fruit picking last year.

It was 12 hour days, no food provided but you were expected to live on site in a shitty static caravan. It was also 90min min away from my house.

People on benefits aren't a single group of lazy fuckers who can't be arsed to work. Most have some kind of caring commitment that means working a job is unrealistic. Many are minimally educated or have poor social skills so would struggle to hold down a job. They're also not free slave labour to be exploited.

I work 9-3 Monday to Friday, am a single parent to a disabled child therefore can only work School hours. I receive benefits. I work bloody hard with obviously a 24/7 caring shift thrown in one way or another with zero support.

This is categorically untrue in every respect. Workers receive the hourly NMW rate if they can't reach the piece rate. The gangmaster (if involved) invoices the farmer the wages gross total, with a % on top, to cover employer NIC. There is a very tiny amount that employers (in any industry) can deduct from employees if the employees choose to live in accommodation made available to them by employers. Employers cannot deduct utility payments from employees (they can though make sure that everything is paid for directly via meters). They can 'provide' transport for which they can charge, but they cannot make employment conditional upon employees using that transport. They also cannot insist that employees live on site. Employees gross wages are exactly what they have earnt, then minus PAYE & NIC ONLY.

But apart from that...

I worked in the area for a very, very long time. I know the law inside out. Don't get me wrong, there are a LOT of dodgy people out there who exploit workers, but the actual law is very much on the workers side. Ten years ago, a farm worker didn't have to pay more than £32 a week for basic selfcatering accommodation provided by their employer - and if more was deducted, the farmer was in SERIOUS trouble.

So its untrue but they can

There is a very tiny amount that employers (in any industry) can deduct from employees if the employees choose to live in accommodation made available to them by employers. Employers cannot deduct utility payments from employees (they can though make sure that everything is paid for directly via meters). They can 'provide' transport for which they can charge

which is what I posted! but in less detail.

Well I work full time, raise two children and study most evenings, but when I’ve finished that I’ll leave them to fend for themselves, hop on the bus to the nearest farm (2 hours away) and graft all night before starting work again the next morning!

Dick.

@FrippEnos True, but you didn't provide the detail, which is crucial. You also said gangmasters deduct their take from wages - they can't do that. I'm not denying that there are dodgy farmers & gangmasters out there (they were the bane of my life!), butit's vital that workers know their rights.

It's something I feel really strongly about, having worked in the sector for years. We might have dragged the thread slightly off topic though

In Victoria, where fruit picking faces similar labour shortages, the farmers have come up with the novel suggestion of bringing in the pensioners, for a tax break.

Possibly if they didn't have such shit wages, there might be an issue.

www.theage.com.au/topic/agriculture-1n7n

Might NOT be an issue, Grrrr.

@AyeUpMeDuck what you have said is very true. It is true in my country too. And the unemployed are demonised so the focus is on them and not on the MPs.

It's not a simple question, but it's worth thinking about. Sure, there are people who can't work, or can't move to work.

But it's not like importing workers is simple. They don't live near the farms either, they don't even live in the same country. Generally they have to be put up while they are working here, so the facilities exist to do this. There are all kinds of administrative issues, like health care provision, with visiting workers as well.

They are also more prone to be exploited for all kinds of reasons, which is why its a bit odd that it's always people who think of themselves as progressives who seem desperate to justify that this is a good way to manage domestic agriculture.

There is something wrong when there we can't supply most of the basic labour we need.

Or if these things really need doing ...how about they become actual jobs? Rather than using the unemployed as cheap labour?

If there is work to be done, the laws of supply and demand (free market economics, if you will, of which the Tories are Big Fans) explains that the cost of the labour goes up with scarcity.

So all things being equal: the price of the labour should be enough to encourage people into the job vacancies. That's not happening because ... fill in the blanks for yourselves.
But it is not down to benefit claimants to fill in those gaps on the cheap. Where does that end? (look at the US Prison Industrial Complex for more ideas of this ilk)

My child applied for loads of fruit picking jobs. They were 19 but they had a complete work history from 16.

Didn't get a single response. Not one.

"Anyone who is able should do some sort of contribution to earn their money."

This applies to the idle rich who live off investments (tax rate 10%) as well as the "feckless poor".

I think this is an excellent idea. All benefit recipients should be made to fruit pick (or where that is not feasible sweep the streets or do some other work that benefits the community in return for their money). This should include all those who reieve child benefit too, whether they are in employment or not. Nobody should get free money.

I hope I am not allocated a job which requires me to spell receive 😆

Too busy doing our low paid full time jobs soz.

Ah, but what about your spare time? All those hours wasted sleeping when you could be give something back.

Thank goodness someone said it!!

That's a fair point, I wonder if I could bring my severely autistic son along? He gets disability benefits and will never apply for a job, the lazy little scrounger.