To think that prisoners should have to pay towards their keep?

[girlfriend44]

So you commit a crime and go to prison and your kept also for free, no money worries etc.
If you can afford it shouldnt you pay something towards it? it costs country alot of money to keep you locked up why not contribute?
Your not exactly spending your money while your locked up anyway.

OP that is an awful idea.
I think we incarcerate far too many people, prison should be reserved for those who need to be removed from society. We need to find punitive measures for non violent offenders.
Prison is grim. Truly awful.

I totally get where your point is coming from, but how? Prisoners are locked up, how are they meant to pay? I'm pretty sure In some prisons (maybe all, I don't know) you can earn some amount of money for snacks, supplies etc but I'm sure it wouldn't be enough to keep the prison service going.

their punishment is being locked up from society. Keeping them off the streets etc (not that every person in prison is a danger on the streets of course).

You have a weird fixation with prisons and a very misinformed view that all prisoners are all highly dangerous, rapists or child molesters and murderers. I remember your other thread about prison officers and luckily you had the same reaction from other, more informed and rational, posters as you're getting here. I think you need a hobby. Maybe take up reading more about the criminal justice system and find some case studies on how background/upbringing effects crime rates and type.

Are you also the same poster who started a racist thread demanding all Asian prisoners be deported? Even the British Citizens.

Actually @LunaLemon has it half right.

When you are awarded compensation for a miscarriage of justice, there will be deducted from tbe award of damages an amount attributable to what you will have saved on accommodation. Grotesque as that sounds. .

This was decided by the House of Lords (now the Supreme Court) in a controversial majority decisions for those poor sods wrongfully imprisoned for the murder of Carl Bridgwater

I think it depends whether you see prison’s sole function is punishment or rehabilitation. Personally, I think it should be both.

I’d much rather prisoners had to choose between learning a trade or education and give them a better footing for when they re-enter society and less likely to re-offend.

Actually @LunaLemon has it half right.

When you are awarded compensation for a miscarriage of justice, there will be deducted from tbe award of damages an amount attributable to what you will have saved on accommodation. Grotesque as that sounds. .

This was decided by the House of Lords (now the Supreme Court) in a controversial majority decisions for those poor sods wrongfully imprisoned for the murder of Carl Bridgwater

@steff13 - no we don't. Most debts are not a criminal offence. However in England and Wales you can be imprisoned for non payment of:
council tax
Motoring offence fines
Court fines
TV licence non payment.

More women than men are imprisoned for low level survival crimes, eg non payment of TV licence, shoplifting etc as they are already on low incomes/benefits.

Do any of us actually know what prison is like?

Presumably some people on mumsnet have been to prison or work in one

@speakout I've been in a medium security prison several times to deliver IT training to its staff. It's horrendous. The cells are tiny, there are bars everywhere, it's bleak, bleak, bleak.

I think we should be looking at countries which have low recidivism rates and see if we can learn from what they are doing, because the UK prison system is achieving nothing except cheap vengeance.

I agree.. Your idea of " cheap vengance " is accurate.
Women are treated more harshly by the judicial system.

I have worked in high-security prisons for the last 10 years.i have a reasonably good grasp of "what prison is like".

The posters pointing out that most prisoners come from lives of significant deprivation are right. These people don't have huge private reserves of cash, they barely have sufficient clothes for their stay. They should all be in education or work, but for a variety of reasons this doesn't always happen (often down to the individuals poor mental health).

Someone mentioned a factory employing prisoners, who had to pay for their keep. This is not true. The 40% taken off the men is a Victim Levy, it isn't "keep" as such.

Reducing Reoffending among prisoners is sort of my thing. Please ask if you want to know.

PonyPatter44 I totally support the work you do. A challenging job., and wonderful to hear of your caring attitude.
Working as a prison officer doesn't give you complete insight into how it feels as an inmate however.

The purpose of the judicial system should be reformative and what incentive is there for reform if you come out destitute? Most people in prison are already representative of the worst off portion of society who have been let down at every hurdle.

I remember watching a documentary about a criminal who did terrible things, yet his own background, his own childhood, was so bad. The abuse he had suffered was horrific. As was what he went on to do, but I couldn’t help but feel for him. His entire life was ruined by people letting him down in his formative years. Of course that doesn’t mean he should go on to do what he did, but you can have sympathy while saying he was very much in the wrong and had to be incarcerated for life for the safety of others.

Working as a prison officer doesn't give you complete insight into how it feels as an inmate however

is how an inmate feels particularly relevant to the OP’s proposal?

I think so yes.

They do have jobs.

They often have jobs in a recycling centre, they make sand bags that are used in winter to prevent floods. They work in the kitchens, cooking the food. They clean the prison. They work in the library. They do the laundry. Prisoners basically run the whole prison.

They get paid approx £15 a week which they can spend on phone credit / snacks / toiletries.

And they have to pay a TV license. 50p each if you're in a double cell, £1 if you're in a single (I used to be a prison officer, I'm not taking the piss).

1 in 3 convictions were for non payment of the tv license, these didn't necessarily result in imprisonment.

Sorry, my last post was in response to this.

We're not.

This myth that the majority of women in prisons are there for not paying TV licence has been debunked over and over yet persists despite it being utterly baseless.

What is true is that a large number of the women in UK prisons have been convicted of non-payment of the fine levied for non-payment of TV licence, but that is not why they are in prison.

They are women who have been found guilty of another offence while they have a charge for non-payment of fine outstanding, and as they are facing a custodial sentence in any case, the outstanding charge is taken into consideration in order to wipe it.

Non-payment of TV licence is not an offence that carries a custodial sentence in any case, so you really have to wonder about the motivations of media outlets who continually mislead by reporting it as such.

I think they should all have to work in some capacity that benefits society.

In what way?

I completely agree that it doesn't equate to being a prisoner. I have keys, I go home to my family every night, I have freedom. But working in the prison for so long has shown me just how precious freedom is.

There are loads of initiatives at the moment designed to get prisoners back into work and contributing to society. Unfortunately those initiatives cannot work in isolation. There has to be decent accommodation, mental health support, mentoring...all things that successive governments have chipped away at. Expecting us in the prison service to work miracles when services in the community are on their knees, is frankly farcical.

But we still try...

Your not familiar with the fact IH received compensation in prison then for I juries he sustained.

Another bloody joke getting a pay out. Should deffo be taken from him, mad he even got it in the first place.

Not what was asked, though.