To think that prisoners should have to pay towards their keep?

[girlfriend44]

So you commit a crime and go to prison and your kept also for free, no money worries etc.
If you can afford it shouldnt you pay something towards it? it costs country alot of money to keep you locked up why not contribute?
Your not exactly spending your money while your locked up anyway.

Exactly. Who bloody cares what happens to scum like Ian Huntley. He also had compensation paid to him in prison but that's another topic.

There are 80,568 prisoners in the system who are NOT Ian Huntley, though. A lot of them are serving shortish sentences and will be released, possibly to live near YOU. Wouldn't you prefer to have had some effort made to rehabilitate them before they came out?

So you don’t believe in redemption then?

may as well just hang the lot of them.

So @Florenz are you in favour of policies that reduce economic inequality and deprivation? Because that's how you reduce crime. Costs money though, and Tories don't like spending on people who aren't their rich friends.

I am in favour of policies that reduce inequality, yes. But only for law-abiding, hard working citizens.

so would you agree that the aim for criminals is to become hard working and law abiding or would you rather be funding their incarceration indefinitely?

People can change, especially if the right guidance is in place.

The more inequality there is the more chance desperate people will turn to crime to try and survive. Your idea will increase the amount of criminals and therefore victims.

Not if criminals are kept locked up in jail, which is where they belong.

This!

@Florenz if you reduce inequality, you will have fewer criminals. You start by creating a level playing field for everyone, not just the few that you approve of, otherwise you won't get anywhere. This really shouldn't be so difficult to understand.

And if you want fewer criminals, you also need to change the way prison works so that you reduce reoffending. There are countries that do this well. The UK does it very badly.

But right wingers will howl in fury at the idea because it's 'rewarding' criminals without recognising that all of society will benefit.

Bring back hanging for shoplifting, whole life sentences for burglars, etc?

If they are deemed to have made a lot of money from crime they will be financially penalised under the Proceeds of Crime Act, basically they will take into account all assets eg property in order to pay it back. Rich criminals will also be made to pay the prosecution expenses and potentially compensation to victims. But in the majority of cases where the criminal is basically broke the courts don't give any financial penalties because it would only lead to further crime trying to raise the money to pay it.

@PonyPatter44 yep, that's pretty much the thinking of a certain section of society. IMO jail should only be for the most serious offenders and even then the primary aim should be rehabilitation.

this explains it rather well

For the punishment at all costs brigade on here: Norway has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world. If you don't want that, why not?

For the punishment at all costs brigade on here: Norway has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world. If you don't want that, why not?

Depends on what you think the criminal justice system is for. By and large, the English view is that it's there to enforce the social order. Anything else is pretty much a bonus. It's clearly not to protect life or property because if it was, you'd measure it that way.

A lot of people here are arguing in the belief that the English prison system has loads of ambitions that it really doesn't.

You'd think for a government obsessed with targets it would be trivial to have a league ranking of prisons predicated on the recidivism rate.

To be fair, there were on.y 12 ‘law lords’ (judges) who sat in the House of Lords. Sounds li,e something g out of Doctor Who 😂

No money worries? Many are low income to begin with, lose their homes and jobs when they go to prison, and are homeless with very little help when they're released. (I worked with the prison service some years ago).

Would you live in a prison, OP, since you think it's so stress free?

If recidivism was the main concern, we'd execute all criminals. It is not the main concern and never has been. It is not in the interest of people working within the legal industry to reduce crime, but to manage it, maintain it, just like it is not in the interest of the medical and pharmaceutical industries to cure diseases. There's too much money involved, too many people getting rich for any real progress to ever be made.

And if they can't pay?
Presumably we would send them to prison for an unpaid debt.

Let them pay it off like a student loan.

"Too many people getting rich"? Some lawyers, perhaps, and the board members of companies that build private prisons. I assure you that those of us at the sharp end in prisons and probation are definitely NOT getting rich.

Incidentally, prisoners who work while in open prison do have a "victim levy" taken from their earnings.

Prisoners who work have to hand over 40% of their earnings for their keep

Do they pay income tax and national insurance on their earnings?

I’ve been a victim of crime and I believe they should somehow pay!

They do the crime, then the time then walk free and recommit. ( mine does anyway, he’s been inside 9 times since juvenile prison)

They should pay the victims family whether that’s through payment through their wages/benefit or somehow helping the victims family out through volunteering for a charity of the families choosing or some other form of payment of the families choosing!

My burglar was happy to go to prison as his brother was in there at the same time, he’s never sat down with me to apologise and asked how if affected me! He destroyed my home, my life and he actually laughed in court, Whereas I have to live with what he did to me and my home forever!

So yes they should pay whether in the form of money or another payback method after prison but they should be held accountable

( A few years in prison having a great time with family isn’t payment)

We are ludicrously soft on crime and criminals in this country.

I think the number of people living in prison should be massively reduced - it should be only for those who are actually dangerous. Get all the others to "repay their debt to society" by doing community service. That way they're making a useful contribution and not costing anything to keep.