To think that prisoners should have to pay towards their keep?

[girlfriend44]

So you commit a crime and go to prison and your kept also for free, no money worries etc.
If you can afford it shouldnt you pay something towards it? it costs country alot of money to keep you locked up why not contribute?
Your not exactly spending your money while your locked up anyway.

What money?

I hate to break it to you OP but most prisoners don’t have an excellent portfolio

exactly read the post. I realise you cant pay if you havent got any money.

We keep talking about the amount of money it costs in benefits etc and slating people on them, what about the scumbags who are raping and murdering people etc and are living rent free? How much does all this cost the taxpayer?

I am aware of that and have addressed it.

Christ, I hope this thread isn’t some politicians research group project. There’s an awful lot of people spouting pure shite about something they clearly know nothing about.

implementing some of these suggestions would result in higher crime rates overall and sky high reoffending rates apart from the one which thinks prisons are an affront to human rights apparently. There’s very little nuance or ability to analyse consequence here.

absolutely agree. I ran away from home once, about 15, and met some people who were trying to help me find a home for the night. They told me what they do is smash a window, call the police on themselves and they usually get a bed for the night plus breakfast.

beats the rain.

No, of course they can't be charged for keep because they have no means to pay. Nor should wealthy prisoners have money taken from accumulated wealth unless it is from criminal activities, (as happens under POCA) because it would be unjust.

The vast majority of prisoners have nothing in the bank. Barely literate with no life skills or ambition to get work outside, no matter how many courses and education are available in the prisons.

On Ukraine you can end up forfeiting everything you own if convicted of a crime. It’s awful, they seize it. Imagine living prison and your life is gone? How do you rehabilitate ever and move forward? Wrongful convictions destroy lives. People don’t live normally again. It’s a horrible system.
I think incarceration is punishment enough. Let people do their time then re-enter society if they seek to and it’s possible.

I quite like this idea, especially for anti social behaviour. Drunk and violent at chucking out time. A tag and a curfew. A bit like grounding for irresponsible adults.

Generally most people are poor before they get to prison. Drugs, poverty, care leavers, under educated. A lot of these people have been failed by society before adulthood.

Definitely not. People have committed far worse crimes than lists of people in jail but just have the money to pay for good representation to avoid sentencing.

Broadly speaking most (though I admit not all) people in prison have already been hugely let down by society they are more likely have undiagnosed or improperly treated mental health problems than the general population, far more likely to be functionally illiterate and far more likely to have been abused when they were younger.

Furthermore their chances of gaining employment upon leaving prison is greatly reduced.

There's some really interesting research on vocabulary levels in children when they first enter school (ie how much your parents actually speak to you and the content of what they're saying) and how it can be a predictor of future success or lack of in later life. Those in the prison system are likely to have had such a small vocabulary at the age of 5 that teachers would have to teach them on average 32 new words a day throughout primary school to even stand a chance of catching them up with their peers.

So no I don't think incarcerating people who are already hugely vulnerable and then charging them for the privilege is the answer but then I'm a total leftie liberal hippie who believes the answer is to take funding from other areas and throw it at catching these people before it's too late. I dream of living in a society where we happily pay our taxes safe in the knowledge that our government is using them to make life better for everyone.

Well I suppose you could turn that on its head and say that if they’re in prison they aren’t claiming any benefits are they so there’s a bit of a cost saving there.

You won't be going to Holloway. It shut about 5 years ago. It's being built on...thankfully some of it is going to the Peabody Trust so it should be affordable and/or social housing, but knowing the area is being gentrified I bet a fair amount will cost £££. I used to live in a HA block practically next door, which was demolished about 10 years back and is now luxury flats.🙄😣

They originally planned to do it to Pentonville half a mile down the road, but they had prisoners buried there from when the death penalty was in place and you can't build on consecrated land so they turned their sites to Holloway, which means there is no local female prison in London.

OP has previously posted (often and ignorantly) about how awful the legal system is.

I don’t think prisoners should have to pay money towards their keep, but I am all for convict labour. Put them in fluorescent pinnies and have them picking up litter along the motorways. Have them do laundry for NHS hospitals. Send them down into the sewers to clear fatburgs. The white collar criminals like solicitors put them to work doing pro bono legal aid for DV victims, accountants put them to work helping disabled and vulnerable with managing money and taxes, teachers/professors- have them run classes in prison so some prisoners could earn qualifications/degrees.

They dont mind going to prison, some even keep going back

”They” don’t “keep going back” because “they” “don’t mind”.

A lot of research and effort goes into reducing reoffending and it’s laughable and frankly insulting to dismiss it in such a trite way.

Here’s one resource if you’re interested in exploring this highly complex problem in a more informed way:

www.gov.scot/publications/5-step-approach-evaluation-designing-evaluating-interventions-reduce-reoffending-summary/pages/6/

Most folk in prison are not on leave from their job and being paid. But I can see the point of prisoners who are rich being made to pay towards their board. But it would be a legal nightmare

I wonder what planet some of the posters on this subject live on. Of course benefits stop whilst incarcerated, come out and spend savings that one made me laugh. The prisoner on release gets what's called gate money. I can't remember the exact amount but definitely less than £90.00 then they are sent their merry way back into society.

Ok. Say I get sent down for a nice long stretch. I'm unemployed now as would be dismissed. I've got joint savings and a jointly owned house.

Are you evicting my wife and family?

80% ff female prisoners are in for non-violent offences.
I in 3 are in for non-payment of the TV Licence ffs.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tv-licence-fee-women-convictions-b1763192.html

metro.co.uk/2021/04/17/women-in-prison-why-building-more-cells-isnt-the-answer-14416934/

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-43906626

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2020/03/short-prison-sentences-fail-vulnerable-women-its-time-reform

I would like to see a set-up where prisoners are in full time work or education. Not slave labour, but proper jobs that they can do while they're in prison, that enable them to develop their skills and build their self esteem etc. They should have choices about what they do, and they should be paid properly for that work. They could then contribute a reasonable sum to cover the cost of their keep, while using the rest to support any children that they have on the outside and/or saving up to help them get started on a new life when they are released. Having skills and a small financial cushion would definitely help to reduce reopening rates in my view.

Those who want to study should be supported to do so. They should get a tailored version of student loan, from which they could again pay towards their keep.

The punishment is the deprivation of liberty. It is in all our interests to ensure that prisoners are able to make a smooth transition back into society when they are released, so having them study and work like everyone else would be a good thing in my opinion.

It's insane that we are sending people to prison for not paying their TV licences!

The majority of the prison population has been failed by their parents, their teachers and every other agency. Put together a cocktail of abuse and negativity and one has criminals. There are those who are just inherently bad and nothing in their backgrounds has damaged them but they are rare.

Kindness and education would serve the prison population best to equip them with life skills. Every prisoner should have a bridged return to society with a grant to support them in my opinion. In the meantime a great deal more needs to be done for the former neets population. The return of specialist schools and better funded PRU's should be a priority.

A better argument op would be for charges to be levied for food, beverages and laundry services for hospital inpatients. That may even increase standards because if people with freedoms were being charged they could kick up a stink about the poor quality fare they are too often confronted with.

Everything costs money and we are in a bate in this country whereby some services are so badly managed they don't deserve additional resources.

You know those are peoples actual jobs already? What are you proposing they do?

No don’t suggest that to bloody Rishi otherwise he’ll have a load of convicts teaching your kids in the local comprehensive by next term.

The problem with the convict labour is then of course that removes a job that an actual noncriminal could be doing to support their family.

Not to mention it goes down the whole Magdalene laundries Road of incentivising private industry to make use of free manual labour to line their own pockets.

I believe that may still be the American model.

fresh meat constantly required to keep the machine oiled.

I'm thinking of WC who may have owned a house with his wife.

Do you mean Wayne Couzens?

So what if they have?

The Discussion is quite popular judging by the replies. I prefer them to Mother In Law threads or My Neighbours TV is too loud etc what should I do? They are just boring imo.