To think Britain is heading towards economical and social collapse

[Cheesecakeandwineinasuitcase]

It feels like we are living in strange times, having come out of a global pandemic, the war in Ukraine and now the cost of living crisis and the added pressure from Brexit.

Ive barely slept tonight, worrying about what might happen with energy prices. I’ve heard the energy price cap is expected to rise to £3,850 in October. A few months ago I’m sure they predicting it would be £2,400 and that was horrifying enough.
Now I’m seeing people on the energy support Facebook group talking about monthly energy costs of £900 per month. It feels like this is escalating out of control very quickly and the Government are allowing us to sleepwalk into a disaster.

I realised tonight that if the price cap does keep increasing at the rate it has then what will happen to all the businesses once people can’t afford their energy bills anymore? They will probably increase their prices to try and cover their costs but that will drive down sales even more as people won’t have as much money to spend anymore. Eventually it will only be the essentials that we can afford so that surely means that all the other businesses won’t be able to afford to keep going?

Then what? Unless our government actually get their heads together about this then the whole country will end up in financial ruin and we will see the breakdown of society. Why so much focus on the leadership contest, surely that must take a back step.

Ive just checked the parliament website and the House of Commons has now gone into summer recess so they won’t meet again until September! I think this is an emergency situation and that they should be called back to focus on this. They get paid enough.

I think it’s outrageous that they can claim for utility bills on their expenses when there are people out there with young children who are worried about being cut off and put onto a prepayment meter.

There are over 4 million children in poverty. Statistics trump anecdote. I don’t personally know any either but that’s because I live in a relatively affluent area.

endchildpoverty.org.uk/key-facts/

Oh put a sock in it @ticktickticktickBOOM. It’s so tedious.

Families with three or more children 47% of children in poverty live in families with three or more children

Not rocket science is it given benefits are capped at 2 children.

It's not tedious @Blossomtoes . It's reality. People don't know how to feed themselves and it's making them even poorer and ill. Watch.

The quicker people know how to help us lot on lower incomes maybe we will rise up and be stronger. You have no idea.

Not RTFT but yes - it feels like we are heading for economic collapse, but not just the UK. It's shaky all over. A local shop announced to do thry are closing down and I'm sure many more will follow. People can't afford to be eating out and spending money if thry can't afford to heat their home.

I'm not feeling the pinch yet but I am very aware of how much everything is increasing and justifying spending money.

We have a wide circle of friends who are similar - not suffering yet but we'll aware of what lies ahead. My circle of friends are speaking openly of the fears of climate change and changes they will make.

Yeah it’s a horrible disaster all round tbh. Could we in better nick to deal with this situation? absolutely but I suspect it wouldn’t have mattered which government was in power it would be the same. There are no easy answers either here or on the continent. The reality is the prevailing belief in western europe is that economic ties are and mutually beneficial trade is the way to prevent conflict. A misunderstanding about cultural difference has been fundamental to this, the west tends to believe that foreign policy can be a win win outcome whereas some leaders around the world still believe in a zero sum game approach. Turns out we were wrong.

I think people assume Europe is some sort of mature in control rational neighbour but they have their own problems and you do have to read a bit more widely to see it. ECB has just moved their rate up. Its been negative since 2014. Theres a reason for that and it’s fragility in the system. Germany keeps promising stuff it doesn’t actually send to Ukraine because they are terrified of a gas shut down (again completely understandable if self inflicted, especially after the invasion of Crimea). italy’s government has just collapsed. Everyone is cosying up to Saudi (khashoggi who) to try to squeeze some more oil out of them including the Americans and France (and lets be honest what choice do we have).

Point on EDf, its already over 1billion in the hole, it’s a money pit and the 4% cap will be paid for by the taxpayer one way or another, you could argue it’s worth it to nationalise it to keep household bills down (not an unreasonable one I might add) but don’t be under any illusion, that bill will come due.

My view is we are where we are, whatever mistakes have been made have been made and we need to start deciding what we are going to do next. I really really want Truss and Sunak to reach an agreement on energy policy and implement it immediately. Hopefully it will also promote a much wider conversation in the Uk about energy and food security in the future.

I’ve just depressed the hell outta myself. Worlds a mess tbh and I can’t think of a single leader who I would say is ontop of their stuff.

Define poverty? The Joseph Rowntree Trust which is the oracle and arbiter on the subject suggests it's the lowest paid third of the population, which suggests that it is definned. But we all know some parents manage low budgets well, and others don't.

You have no idea

I do have an idea. I know what it’s like to have to choose between a loaf of bread and a pint of milk. Trust me, I understand having no money.

Those kids are still poor @Nothappyatwork. 🤷‍♀️

I think Keir Starmer is keeping his cards close to his chest, and quite rightly too. When parties deliberately don't field a candidate so that the other party wins , against a tory , you have to start acknowledging that there is some cooperation happening. The press is so heavily favouring the Tories despite the wretched daily dismantling of our democracy it is beyond comprehension . They are a vicious PR machine and unless there is a GE soon and the tories lose , we are heading into a Fascist state. Helped along by the Attorney General.

Actually @Blossomtoes I do remember. I was a new immigrant with $600 to my name in NYC. It was a matter of some urgency to get a job and a roof over my head. Many years ago now. but it's not something I will forget. And that was during a financial crisis too.

You’ve named dirt cheap chicken legs and a pack of porridge, What about meat, fish, fruit, vegetables, yogurts, cheeses?

Your argument is quite ignorant to the families struggling and having to cut back on anything quality.

Poor working class are also usually work long hours and are time poor.

There have been several studies on why WC people turn to cheap foods and cheap take aways, it isn’t as simple as you make it seem.

I think you’ve tagged the wrong poster!

@XingMing.

Whoops! Profuse apologies @Blossomtoes .

I think the Government will have to step in to do something before the winter. But I hope that ALL families will get help, and not just the ones on benefits and low incomes, because there are lots of people not on benefits who are going to be pushed into poverty with rising costs.

Indeed but it’s not just that. As soon as the tax payer has no disposable income our economy (being a service one) collapses. That’s even more jobs gone and more out of work.

Are we storing gas for Germany and exporting electricity to France? If so, why the fuck?

No problem. 😉

We're not storing gas for Germany, because we don't have gas storage for the UK and we mainly buy electricity from France when their nuclear systems are working full pelt and producing a surplus. So don't get riled @StridTheKiller .

As soon as the tax payer has no disposable income our economy (being a service one) collapses. That’s even more jobs gone and more out of work

And this is what l think will happen. All those small businesses like nail and lash bars, hairdressers, hospitality, gyms that struggled through Covid are going to get hammered again. Spending on clothes and home furnishings will disappear. People will be spending everything on food and heating.

Can someone with an economics background explain what would happen if the govt. imposes energy price caps? In the short term it would hopefully give people more disposable income and boost economic growth. What happens longterm? How would it impact global energy markets? How would it impact energy suppliers?

Thank you!

@Livelovebehappy it's not as simple as help everybody. I probably don't need help, and nor do most of my chums because we are only just retired and have some savings and no dependents, but my DM who retired from mental health nursing at 78, needs pension credit to top up her income to £180 per week. She probably does need all the help the state and I can offer to keep her warm and secure, as long as she has her marbles. DMIL has dementia, but is spending the proceeds of selling her house at £4k per month to be kept clean and fed, warm and dry.

Could we not create some gas storage in the UK

We were talking about this with my dm and concluded it was bad that the energy industries were privatised in the 80s in the first place.

We had gas storage in the UK, government decided a few years ago that it was too expensive to maintain and now we don’t have it.