To think Britain is heading towards economical and social collapse

[Cheesecakeandwineinasuitcase]

It feels like we are living in strange times, having come out of a global pandemic, the war in Ukraine and now the cost of living crisis and the added pressure from Brexit.

Ive barely slept tonight, worrying about what might happen with energy prices. I’ve heard the energy price cap is expected to rise to £3,850 in October. A few months ago I’m sure they predicting it would be £2,400 and that was horrifying enough.
Now I’m seeing people on the energy support Facebook group talking about monthly energy costs of £900 per month. It feels like this is escalating out of control very quickly and the Government are allowing us to sleepwalk into a disaster.

I realised tonight that if the price cap does keep increasing at the rate it has then what will happen to all the businesses once people can’t afford their energy bills anymore? They will probably increase their prices to try and cover their costs but that will drive down sales even more as people won’t have as much money to spend anymore. Eventually it will only be the essentials that we can afford so that surely means that all the other businesses won’t be able to afford to keep going?

Then what? Unless our government actually get their heads together about this then the whole country will end up in financial ruin and we will see the breakdown of society. Why so much focus on the leadership contest, surely that must take a back step.

Ive just checked the parliament website and the House of Commons has now gone into summer recess so they won’t meet again until September! I think this is an emergency situation and that they should be called back to focus on this. They get paid enough.

I think it’s outrageous that they can claim for utility bills on their expenses when there are people out there with young children who are worried about being cut off and put onto a prepayment meter.

Wave power, not sea power off the north east coast.

Energy prices capped in France doesn't mean energy is cheaper there. It just means there are bigger hidden subsidies, paid by taxpayers.

If people wittering on about this want the same thing as France, they should come out and say "we want more money taken off present and future taxpayers and given to poorer people", they shouldn't be proclaiming that government decrees can magically make energy cost less.

people need to do what they need to do to get by. As part of an immigrant family I know that as well as anyone. But stopping panicking and catastrophising will help. Really it will. The world isn’t ending

Panicking doesn't help.

But we need planning and preparation.

And this Government has shown that it does not understand how to plan and prepare for events - you can see this with their attitude towards the current issues and the coming price cap

The quote you made was in response to the op saying we should nationalism energy companies to increase competition. I was pointing out that’s not going to work.

also I don’t think you understand competition and it’s effects. Generally it lowers prices but at this time it can’t because the government has capped the price suppliers can charge below wholesale prices that they can buy energy at. Rightly so imo but competition between suppliers generally is a good thing that lowers prices.

Yes I agree, however, EDF has better buying power as they supply 100% of France so they have a chance of getting better terms than all our separate energy companies.

There has been planning. What more do you want? We have had both targeted and general payments to reduce the effects of increased energy prices. What practical things would you like to see implemented?

as I said, it should be a reasonably short term spike and will fall back over time.

Where is the practical advice on staying warm and keeping usage down in the home? There are people out there who need that.

The advice to businesses and local Government on saving energy - and the action by them to reduce the amount of energy we use now.

Unfortunately we can't store much gas - and we are unable to store much of the energy we are producing at the moment for when we need it in the winter months.

Grants or loans to help people insulate their homes - it's expensive to get insulation and people who could benefit from better boilers, wall insulation, loft etc often can't afford it in the first place - because they don't have much income.

We should have invested in renewables 15 years ago with a view to being self sufficient (or as near as possible).

We have done that, we have invested massively over the last decade or so. As far as I'm aware the UK is a world leader in replacing fossil fuels with renewables.

It’s really worrying esonclinate change too
i mean 40c heatwaves wtf

That’s not true- there are other suppliers in France. also energy markets are regulated so that suppliers are paying market price- size doesn’t matter in that context.

EDF is selling electricity at a significant loss in France at the moment due to the cap. Same as suppliers here.

I'm not dismissing your worries at all as I know it will be very difficult.

But sentences like this So yes. I too think there is definite potential for mass panicing. make me wonder what the poster thinks they are doing, apart from trying to sow panic.

(In fact the you'll remember that even before the war in Ukraine, the energy crisis had started, for a variety of other reasons, but one of the factors in the UK was lack of wind, reducing renewable generation.)

We already have all these things including grants for boiler replacement and insulation.

we are the same wage bracket. And I’m worried.
i know the wealthy will cut back on luxuries / just pay it.
i know the lower wages will get support - as they should.

but I am worried for the us, the average, the middle. It will be argued you’ve over stretched etc, but you could never have budgeted for £500 a month electric, £2 a litre fuel and the associated increase in everything.

we rent. Most of these energy saving things, landlords aren’t going to do unless forced. I’m not going to invest in a house I could be out of in 2 months - I’ll never see the return.

And those renting?

There has been planning. What more do you want? We have had both targeted and general payments to reduce the effects of increased energy prices. What practical things would you like to see implemented

See above message

Also - The price cap will be 3 times what it was in April 21

That is a jump of £1200 to £3800

£2600 - for the average user

Support has ranged from £550 for most people up to about £1200 for those on certain benefits.

So there is a short fall of about £1400 (just over £100 a month) for the average household

Add on petrol prices, inflation at record levels.

And there is a problem

Did you know that 1 in 5 households have negative disposable income?

www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/25/fifth-of-uk-households-have-negative-disposable-income-shortfall-pounds-60-essential-rent-food

A fifth of UK households now have an average shortfall of £60 a week between what they earn and what they need to cover essentials such as energy bills, rent, transport and food, as the rising cost of living leaves people with the lowest amount of spare cash in almost five years

Many people don't have enough savings to cover a loss of salary for a month.

For some people.

If you qualify.

Yes of course some people will die due to poverty as they do every year but I dont think we are heading to end of days this winter

This winter will be worse as a result of high heating, high food prices and extended times in A&E. I'm likely to be ok, but I will cut back and definitely reduce energy usage to reduce bills but I know elderly people and vulnerable adults who will be pushed to the edge.

High energy prices hurt everyone - schools, hospitals, GP practices and all they can do is to cut services elsewhere since their budgets are not increasing.

I know some people might think this is a bit of a jump.

But still there is no government messaging on public health, exercise and healthy eating - other than for a very short while after Boris Johnson had Covid and there were a few adverts on TV featuring jolly fat people exercising.

Fitter, healthier, more active people are more likely to be able to withstand being cold. They are more likely to be able to get up and move around to keep warm rather sitting down because their weight makes them less inclined to move. They are less likely to have diabetes and other health problems. They are more likely to be able to metabolise their food properly. They are less susceptible to complications from illnesses like Covid.

There is a report on Bloomberg that I can't read the whole of, but at the top it says that on the 25th of May this year, wind farms were being asked to reduce output, because wind was producing more electricity than the UK grid could cope with.

Doesn't sound to me like the UK has failed to invest enough in renewables. (But I'm glad we are continuing to invest, grid can always be upgraded, and we can plan to export surpluses to Europe.)

Also tbf the money to nationalize an energy company and suppress prices isn’t just going to poor people. It’s going to subsidize energy for wealthier people too. And businesses. And the waste of having a large power company with no profit motive and no need for efficiency. And the distortion to energy markets and indeed other markets who are buying power at an artificially low price. Over time prices will be higher due to the above.

so it’s not a good thing in short.

For those blasé about the costs, it is worth reminding that it takes 1 small thing for people to lose their livelihoods. In the space of 8 weeks, I went from living in an affluent part of sw London, with dd in a 22k per year school and had a good job, to losing my house, and living off £8 per week on food because of a tragedy happening to our family that was out of our hands. We ended up squatting for 6 weeks before getting somewhere to live. I'm not asking for sympathy because we live a nice life (no where near like before, but fine).

But the op raises a good point, if prices go up, people have to make savings somewhere. It won't be the necessities, it'll be the little luxuries that have already been hit by lockdowns. It'll be those losing their livelihoods next, and I've experienced how fast that can happen.

@HesterShaw1 - alas, my fatter friends appear to feel the cold a lot less than I do!

Sounds very nanny state telling people to eat healthily and to exercise so as to reduce their chances of getting ill and reducing their social cost to society.

Even if it is a good idea - I bet the Tory press would hate it

There was a backlash when an energy company gave advice on heating the person, not the home - even though that is a good idea to reduce usage

A price cap doesn’t mean the maximum bill possible is £3,500.