Cleaner bringing baby

[Hoppinggreen]

Genuinely not sure if IABU so honest opinions welcome. Sorry so long
My cleaner retired so I looked for another and found a small local company. The lady cleans herself and has a couple of people who work for her. She came to see me and we agreed they would do 3 hours per week but doubled up so would be there for 1.5 hours. All good, more than I was previously paying but that wasn’t a problem as they seemed very professional.
We are currently on holiday and the lady suggested they do a really deep clean while we were away. Again all good and I was prepared for it to take quite a while as my old cleaner really only surface cleaned and I just did the toilets etc regularly.
I told lady we had a Ring doorbell so I would know when they went in and out as I dint think it’s fair not to be honest about that. 2 cleaners came yesterday and were there for quite a while but needed to finish off today. Again, no issue with that.
I checked the Ring today and one cleaner arrived and unlocked the door, then instead of going in she stands with her back to the Ring Camera in what looks like a deliberate attempt to block it. There is no other reason to stand in that spot. Once she is “in position” she shouts to the other cleaner (couldn’t hear what) and then that cleaner walks up the drive and past her. The angle of the camera means that it is still possible to see the 2nd cleaner enter the door - with a toddler on her hip but it wouldn’t be obvious it was visible unless you knew exactly where the camera was pointing
They both go in and then both come out very briefly to take a stroller in. They stay for 2 hours and leave carrying toddler again. I messaged boss lady who said she would look into it and then messaged to say someone’s childcare had let them down.
So mnetters am I BU to be pissed off?

There was (looks to me) a deliberate attempt to block the camera
My house isn’t toddler friendly and could have been dangerous if the child wasn’t properly supervised at all times
I dont see how you can effectively clean while supervising a toddler.
I am minded to pay for yesterday in full but only for 1 cleaner today - so 2 hours instead of the 4 I was billed for, would that be reasonable?
Also, I am not sure that I want them to clean for me regularly now
What do other people think?

I wouldn't be happy that they lied about it.

I would tolerate an established cleaner bringing a child as a one off, but no way as a regular occurrence. I've been at home with a toddler. You can clean etc but it takes you easily twice as long, and its not fair to charge a customer more because it takes you longer to clean with your child in tow.

'Holy moly, the way people treat cleaners is absolutely appalling. They clean your filth! Hardly rocket science and doesn't require total concentration'

I would say it does require total concentration, there are so many products out there that can't be left on for too long or can't be used on certain surfaces without causing damage, that the person doing the job needs to be fully there, not distracted. You wouldn't be happy if your cleaner spilt a bottle of bleach over your sofa/carpet etc because they weren't concentrating any more then if someone else you were paying to do a job in another setting caused damage because they weren't concentrating.

My mum used to take all 3 of us to her cleaning jobs when we was younger as she had no childcare. Forgot all about it till I just read this!

You aren’t being unreasonable as such, you are just making far too big a deal of a small thing.

Yes they should have mentioned it. No it isn’t a big deal as a one off. No you wouldn’t be responsible if the toddler was hurt as you didn’t know it was there and didn’t give permission for it to be there.

No it is not reasonable to even think about not paying them in full for day 2. I know you back tracked on this but even to have considered it it is OTT. Have a bit of compassion - everyone has child care crises, you are in a much better financial position than them, so have some generosity of spirit.

Also forgot to add in, concentration is needed so as not to cause an issue/illness to the actual cleaner. Some products shouldn't be mixed for the gases they can create or burns etc they can cause.

You sound lke a creepy spy. I absolutely wouldnt work for you.

How could they ask the op if she is on holiday?
As long as the place is clean, I wouldn't worry too much.

They've used some initiative, perhaps the childcare let them down at the last minute.

Well clean your own house 🤷🏻‍♀️

I do understand the deception is upsetting but I also imagine it comes in this case from vulnerability.
Such jobs are vulnerable and some cleaners are particularly vulnerable. She might have been afraid I'd she was upfront she wont be booked and if shes not booked she wont earn which means she will struggle putting food in the table. Sadly there are people who have no choice even it may not be child friendly.
I struggle to imagine anyone bringing their young child to a cleaning job with toddler in tow.

What you do about it is entirely your choice of course but sometimes its good to put ourselves in someone's else's shoes and see if we can be more understanding. Compassion

My previous cleaner asked me if she could bring her 2 year old as childminder let her down. I suggested she come another day but she was booked so I agreed to toddler coming. I thought cleaner would be focused on child but she asked if toddler could have TV on and found her children Chanel and child sat there watching TV with her little cup of water and slices of apple. She did not move in 2 hours. Cleaner just went about the jobs as normal.

Find a new company, they should have told you prior to attending.

You are in all your rights to look at the camera. I have cameras all around the perimeter of my house and if I had a stranger coming in (even a cleaner) I would check.

They may have cleaned but wouldn't have given you the 100% of the time.

This thread is so nasty. People being nasty to each other in the replies, and a general sense of nastiness towards the cleaner. Like she really wanted to bring her kid with her, it was probably last resort. Many People are struggling at the moment, if you feel uncomfortable about this cleaning company change to another one. But I just want to add my voice to the currently very fifty-fifty debate that it doesn’t matter that the cleaner brought her kid. She probably put the baby in a pushchair with an iPhone and got on with her job. Maybe the baby slept. I feel sorry for her. I’d hate to have to bring my kid to work.

I can't believe the stick you're getting op. I work in a low paid job and would not have dreamt of taking my kids into a cleaning job. I would have rearranged.
The op doesn't owe these women a living she is paying for a service. It does sound like they were being sneaky and how many times do we read on here about mums struggling with babies and housework?

Why are you letting this ruin your holiday?

The deception would be the issue for me. You are trusting someone and they are coming into your home when you are absent
The way they blocked the doorbell shows they were deliberately trying to mislead you.
You can't trust them to be honest with you, and that would be a huge issue for me

Yesterday I had someone do a job for me. They turned up on time and did an excellent job for a reasonable price. I was so surprised!
Why? Because over the last few years I am used to absolutely shit service from all sorts of organisations.
It appears that if they are not on strike, they are wfh whilst looking after children or taking them to work!
You can’t honestly be doing work and looking after a toddler.

And no, you don't take your children to work anywhere without checking with your employer

You're right, but OP isn't their employer

Most cleaners are self-employed, or employed via an agency. The clients pay the agency who take a fee and give the remainder to the cleaner.

I'm self employed (not a cleaner) and know lots of people in my specific field who bring their kids to work with them. They don't need a clients' permission (though I agree it's nice to ask) and it's also covered by their insurance should there be an issue.

To anyone....if you work as a self employed cleaner can I just ask what you would do regarding child care (if someone else couldn't look after the child) if you worked in say in a shop or office?

Take the day off and lose a days pay.

Is it because you are in a 'home' setting you feel you can ask to bring your child along if needed?

No, it's one of the many advantages of being self-employed and working for yourself. I'm not a cleaner but I am self-employed. I work with dogs and often bring my dog (and my mum 🤣) to work with me.

At the end of the day, if clients don't like how I run my business, they're of course free to go elsewhere, but what they don't get to do is set rules about how I do my job.

I'm covered by all the relevant insurance (as is my mum, incidentally, who joins me to keep me company as because she likes the dogs I walk) and I've never once had a client complain. In fact, most of them love that their dogs are meeting new people and getting even more attention

This. Looks like you're trying to use her having the child with her as a way of wriggling out of paying.

OP i think you are unreasonable to say you are not fuming and don't want her to get the sack, but yet you have called her boss, knowing this may result in her being reprimanded. So just be honest and admit you don't mind if she gets the sack as you feel she was in the wrong, irrespective of struggling for childcare.

Im sure the toddler was safe whilst they were cleaning, hence the buggy, but i think you know that, i get the feel its more you dont want them to doing half a job, not the childs safety.

Also im not convinced they were trying on purpose to obscure the camera, its quite easy to do successfully with thise types of cameras if thats someone's intention.

I would have waited until my return to see the quality of the work. If it wasnt up to scratch i would have complained to her boss. I think its a bit shitty to do it, knowing everything was fine, unless of course you wanted her reprimanded/sacked

If it was as expected i would have waited to speak to her directly and explain that you would have expected her to ask first.

I would hate to put someones job and livelyhood at risk over this, i would give them a chance to explain first.

OP is not being unreasonable to expect a professional service. The child should never have been there and the cleaners damn well know it and that is why they tried to hide the fact. A cleaner should no more bring her child to work than the gas engineer coming to service my boiler, BT/Sky engineer or taxi driver. Absolutely ludicrous to say parents everywhere clean and look after their children at the same time.

Ah, @Hoppinggreen, this is mumsnet so you should be apologising to her for the inconvenience. Perfectly reasonable to question it. Perfectly reasonable to go elsewhere.

It’s a trust issue for me that they didn’t ask and blocked the ring camera.

When I was a kid my folks had a cleaner for about 10 years and both times she was pregnant she then bought each baby in a cot at ours until they got a bit older! I love it, it meant she didn't have to arrange childcare and could still work. Difference is I guess we knew her well and the arrangement had been discussed in advance, but the idea in principle I'd actually actively support.

have only read OPs posts.

For me: well there is of course the chance that she doesn't want a, to her, complete stranger having her child on video.
The way people react when cleaners' childcare falls through is a possible reason for sneaking the child in. (reactions by bosses, clients)

Agree that it should be requested in advance, realistically how does your child care phoning up on the day to sack you off and a client on holiday facilitate that? Even though the owner said she'll investigate, it is entirely possible that she did know?

If you are to continue using them and they're worth keeping, I'd just say that you either don't allow children in the house, or that you need to know in advance.

That took longer than expected.
To people who suggested I should have spoken to the cleaner and not her boss, I don’t know this cleaner, never met her and don’t even know her name. I have Only met the lady who owns the company and only have her contact details, I messaged her when my Ring doorbell alerted me to someone going into the house and saw the attempt to block the camera and a child being carried in. I actually waited until I saw the child being brought out 2 hours later to make sure they weren’t just dropping something off etc.
As I have said repeatedly IF this had been an established cleaner who had asked me if they could do this I would probably not have an issue with it BUT this was the first clean, partly to see if I wanted to employ the agency going forward. Also, the attempts to block the camera are what has really annoyed me
I have paid in full but I think I would prefer neither of these 2 cleaners come to my house again. If the agency doesn’t have others available I will find someone else.
My previous cleaner was with me for quite a while before she retired and I am pretty sure she didn’t see me as a “living nightmare” or any of the other things I have been called. Her cleaning probably wasn’t the best but I trusted her 100% and that was more important to me