Cleaner bringing baby

[Hoppinggreen]

Genuinely not sure if IABU so honest opinions welcome. Sorry so long
My cleaner retired so I looked for another and found a small local company. The lady cleans herself and has a couple of people who work for her. She came to see me and we agreed they would do 3 hours per week but doubled up so would be there for 1.5 hours. All good, more than I was previously paying but that wasn’t a problem as they seemed very professional.
We are currently on holiday and the lady suggested they do a really deep clean while we were away. Again all good and I was prepared for it to take quite a while as my old cleaner really only surface cleaned and I just did the toilets etc regularly.
I told lady we had a Ring doorbell so I would know when they went in and out as I dint think it’s fair not to be honest about that. 2 cleaners came yesterday and were there for quite a while but needed to finish off today. Again, no issue with that.
I checked the Ring today and one cleaner arrived and unlocked the door, then instead of going in she stands with her back to the Ring Camera in what looks like a deliberate attempt to block it. There is no other reason to stand in that spot. Once she is “in position” she shouts to the other cleaner (couldn’t hear what) and then that cleaner walks up the drive and past her. The angle of the camera means that it is still possible to see the 2nd cleaner enter the door - with a toddler on her hip but it wouldn’t be obvious it was visible unless you knew exactly where the camera was pointing
They both go in and then both come out very briefly to take a stroller in. They stay for 2 hours and leave carrying toddler again. I messaged boss lady who said she would look into it and then messaged to say someone’s childcare had let them down.
So mnetters am I BU to be pissed off?

There was (looks to me) a deliberate attempt to block the camera
My house isn’t toddler friendly and could have been dangerous if the child wasn’t properly supervised at all times
I dont see how you can effectively clean while supervising a toddler.
I am minded to pay for yesterday in full but only for 1 cleaner today - so 2 hours instead of the 4 I was billed for, would that be reasonable?
Also, I am not sure that I want them to clean for me regularly now
What do other people think?

To people who suggested I should have spoken to the cleaner and not her boss, I don’t know this cleaner, never met her and don’t even know her name. I have Only met the lady who owns the company and only have her contact details, I messaged her when my Ring doorbell alerted me to someone going into the house and saw the attempt to block the camera and a child being carried in. I actually waited until I saw the child being brought out 2 hours later to make sure they weren’t just dropping something off etc

But you knew they had done the job as you waited for them to come out 2 hours later before sending your neighbour in, so once you knew everything was ok, unless you want her to get reprimanded (which is fine, just be honest) you could have waited until she came back the following week and spoke to her directly, or asked her boss for her contact details to discuss something.

I dont think they tried to hide it as you suggest, its so easy to do on these cameras if thats your intention. They then walk in with the pram under their arm, hardly hiding it.

The cleaner may not be as deceitful as you are making out and she may have even checked with the boss first when childcare ket them down and boss didnt want to mither you over something so trivial while you were on holiday.

Either way, yes its best to terminate the agreement. Best for both parties

Have some mercy and Grace. These are cleaners who do not have access to middle class network of childcare.

I don’t know if this lady would be cleaning for me going forward.
Her boss didn’t know and it’s not allowed. Apparently she is a relative of boss lady and has been told not to do it again but not sacked or anything. Which I am happy with.
I would have preferred to be given the option of missing the final bits of the clean or having a small child in the house.
As for you not thinking they tried to hide it you haven’t seen the footage. In case I was being unfair I showed DD with no context. She asked why they were blocking the camera. There is no reason to stand in that spot unless that’s what you are trying to do and unless you knew the camera was angled to cover the cars not the driveway you would think you had effectively blocked it
I am not sure if I want these 2 specific cleaners back though

I feel bad for her because it made me think of the Netflix series Maid which is very sad. Childcare let her down last minute but she clearly needs to work so this was her only choice. She did a good job I’m guessing and nothing was broken? So I really can’t see an issue.

At the end of the day, if clients don't like how I run my business, they're of course free to go elsewhere, but what they don't get to do is set rules about how I do my job.

But they do. The homeowner gets to decide who comes into their house unless it is directly business related. I'm sure you pre agree it that you may bring your dog and your mum who works with you and the person has choice whether to contact you or not to do the job. I doubt you are saying you sneak your dog and your mum in without permission. If you do you ABVU.

I would be fuming if you brought a dog into my house!! Your mum works with you so that's different but I wouldn't allowed random relatives who had no legitimate reason to be there. The same way I'd be sacked if I took my mum to work with me!!

Cleaning is not a spectator sport, houses are private dwellings and my house is not a hang out for random peoples children, relatives or their pets!

I think I would look for another cleaning firm ( I know this isn’t easy. ) When you employed them, you expected the cleaners to turn up and do the job . You gave permission for those two people to go into your house in your absence. You did not give permission for an infant. If the infant damaged anything, or was themself hurt on your property, that is a very grey area legally.

The fact that there appears to have been an attempt to conceal the situation to my mind shows that they knew they were ‘wrong’. Had they marched up to the door with the infant in a carry cot where they could sleep while the mother worked, it would demonstrate innocent intent. You might not like it, but that could have been a misunderstanding, you could have been like all these wonderful welcoming people who would be happy to have an uninvited infant in your house when you were absent.

Personally , I would not have let people whom I did not know into my house unsupervised. I’ve had several cleaners over the decades who looked after the house and sometimes the pets when we were away, but only after we had got to know each other.

I have to say I am appalled at the language and violence of some of the reactions you have received. If anyone had read some of them without reading your post, one would have thought you had suggested throwing the child from an upstairs window rather than just saying that you were a bit miffed. I hope this stuff is a result of hot weather and late hours, because it makes for an uncomfortable atmosphere on a chat forum.

For me the clincher would be the reaction of the boss, rather than the behaviour of the cleaners themselves.

When she replied to say that her employee's childcare had let her down, was there any apology, any promise to make sure it did not happen again, any recognition of the risks to the child in your home? It sounds like you were not offered any money off so I get the sense it was not really taken seriously. On that basis I'd try to find another company.

Exactly

My childcare arrangements are my problem. I would not be able to take them to work with me ever.

I can't work with young DCs around me precisely as they need entertaining and constantly interrupt. That's why I needed a cleaner and why busy parents pay someone else to do their cleaning for them! You can't do it to a high standard with a child in tow. At least in your own home you have set up to keep them safe and their own bedrooms and nap times in their cots.

It's dishonest to pretend you are able to work anywhere near efficiently bringing a young child with you to work then charging the person for half a job or for more hours for the job than it really legitimately took in chargeable time as half the time you were attending to your child.

Ha ha can only middle class relatives look after children now? That's a new one.

I don’t know if this lady would be cleaning for me going forward.
Her boss didn’t know and it’s not allowed. Apparently she is a relative of boss lady and has been told not to do it again but not sacked or anything. Which I am happy with

No you didn't know, but you knew everything was ok. You didn't know she wouldnt get sacked, You just wanted her to get into trouble for it, which you are happy has happened, That's fine if you think thats necessary.
Its a difference of attitude and how to deal with these situations, i wouldn't have felt it necessary.

As for you not thinking they tried to hide it you haven’t seen the footage. In case I was being unfair I showed DD with no context. She asked why they were blocking the camera. There is no reason to stand in that spot unless that’s what you are trying to do and unless you knew the camera was angled to cover the cars not the driveway you would think you had effectively blocked it

No i haven't seen the footage, but common sense would say its not hard to block the view of a ring doorbell effectively. You just block the unit. Anyhow, you are quite entitled to act how you did, yes i feel it was unreasonable and not something i would ever do.

I am not sure if I want these 2 specific cleaners back though

If i was them, you would not get the chance of having me back, i wouldn't come back knowing you thought me deceitful. (When potentially i was just going about my job and stood in the "wrong" place on your drive.) Although she won't know that, unless did you tell her employer she was deceitful in trying to hide the childs entrance and exit, with a buggy?

Why do people post on AIBU for opinions then get all arsey when they get given then.

for what it’s worth it wouldn’t bother me at all. Shit happens and we adapt. they could of not turned up due to lack of childcare but instead made it work.

your responses to people on this thread make you sound like a very unkind person tbh.

Wow. I have just read this thread in full and it confirms to me that Mumsnet is mostly full of middle class folk who look down their noses at those less fortunate

I am a cleaner. I work solely for one company and can be sent to different houses week by week. Always local to my area. I work full time hours (8-4.30) and although not on a high wage, it's comparable with a friend who works for a well known supermarket. I am married and between myself and my DH we are able to go on holiday once a year and although don't have much savings, don't live paycheck to paycheck.

The assumptions and condescending comments on this thread about cleaners have made me furious! Apparently cleaners
-don't have access to childcare
-are living on the breadline
-can't afford to miss a days wage
-are all on minimum wage (usually not if you work for a reputable company)
-need to be given extra flex as we are 'only cleaners'

The assumption that this woman has to clean with no other choice of jobs and took the risk of bringing her child as the outcome of her not working for a day would have meant food taken from her childrens mouths is ridiculous.

Would you make the same assumptions about someone working in a local shop on minimum wage? No, probably not as there is a stigma that cleaners must be struggling to get by as, why else would anyone be a cleaner??

Rant over

OP you were not unreasonable to bring this up with the company. Although I may 'only' be a cleaner, I consider myself professional and wouldn't bring my child to any jobs. Cleaning does take concentration despite what one person said and it would be an absolute distraction. Good on you for laying in full but I wouldn't blame you for going elsewhere next time.

OP you sound absolutely ridiculous! You seem to be focusing on them “blocking the camera” you sound odd, clearly if they was taking a child in your home with a fold down bouncer or a stroller you would see this? Maybe because there was two of them one just accidentally stood in view of it.

it doesn’t take rocket science to know on a ring doorbell you can also see the person leave! So they clearly didn’t hide it that well,

I see it as if the job was done to your satisfaction then what on earth is the problem? The employer explained to you she was let down with childcare last minute! Have some sort of understanding and try and be reasonable.

my mum used to be a cleaner and she took me with her to do gardening and cleaning? She did an outstanding job and was often given praise! So why do you think because she had her child entertained clearly in a stroller or bouncy chair that this means she can’t do a good job to?

you sound snobby, you sound entitled and clearly they had explained there reasoning. You have every right to not use this company again as that’s your choice, however you have no right to bash a working mum who was let down last minute clearly.

also, you stated on your post your house isn’t safe for toddlers etc, how come your previous cleaners were able to bring there’s then? Ridiculous!!

I think people are being a bit harsh on OP. If you hadn't discussed "no children" before, then it's fine for you to bring it up.
It is also fine for the owner to have discussed it with her, and said "not again".
OP would be perfectly reasonable to ask that this cleaner not be sent to her house again, and would be perfectly reasonable to inform the company that if it does happen again she will end the contract.

OP, i'd give them the chance (if they are worth the money) to carry on, but on a warning that next time they're out.

When a previous cleaner bought a young child I had under 8s myself so my house was more child friendly. With Teens theres no need to make sure things are safe. I know they were doing DS bedroom and he has a few things that would not be safe for a child to touch. If anyone brings a small child to my house I know about it in advance and we would put some things out of reach accordingly.
I wasn’t given this choice though
And I am sure that despite the cleaners coming in and out of the house multiple times over 2 days the ONLY time one of them stands deliberately with her back to the camera to block it is when they are bringing a child in and out is pure coincidence (not)
Anyway, I have moved on now. Paid in full and will have to trust that nothing is damaged and everything is clean, which I have no reason to doubt. I still haven’t decided about using the company going forward though.

Now if these flippin teens would get up we could go and continue to enjoy our holiday

Did your mum's employers agree that you could go along?

That's what happened with my mum's cleaner. Her DD was the same age as me so they thought it was a win-win situation (it wasn't)
But it was all agreed at the start.

The OP's cleaner didn't ask and that's the bottom line here.

But they do. The homeowner gets to decide who comes into their house unless it is directly business related.

Which is why I said they're free not to use me if they disagree with how I work, but they can't tell me how I run my business, no.

I'm sure you pre agree it that you may bring your dog and your mum who works with you and the person has choice whether to contact you or not to do the job. I doubt you are saying you sneak your dog and your mum in without permission. If you do you ABVU.

Of course I mention it first but at the end of the day it's my decision, not theirs.

I would be fuming if you brought a dog into my house!! Your mum works with you so that's different but I wouldn't allowed random relatives who had no legitimate reason to be there. The same way I'd be sacked if I took my mum to work with me!!

My mum doesn't work with me at all. That's the point I'm making. She's insured as a close relative on my business insurance but she's only there to keep me company.

Cleaning is not a spectator sport, houses are private dwellings and my house is not a hang out for random peoples children, relatives or their pets!

And that's your choice, but that doesn't mesh you can tell a cleaning company how to operate. You just don't use them afsuv.

I have actually been SE myself and people were free to use or not use my services based on my T&Cs and how I work.
However, I wasn’t given a choice here and they knew it was wrong as there was deceit involved. It’s the lack of choice and attempt to conceal that I have a problem with.

I couldn't get excited about this one. She clearly felt in a tough spot. I'd have some compassion and move on. Perhaps watch 'Maid'.

It's a bit of a stretch to decide this particular cleaner's life is analogous to 'Maid' 🙄

However much of a bind she was in - and we don't know that she was - she needed to check with OP first

I don't think it is a stretch to think a woman who likely only gets paid when she works and gets a fairly low wage isn't in a great position. I'd always give a woman in this position the benefit of the doubt.

I'm a bit fucked off with the narrative of some pp assuming the cleaner is not middle class and will end up destitute if she loses a days pay.
I was a cleaner because the hours and the pay suited my circumstances at the time. If I had no childcare I would have had to rearrange the clean. In my current role (if I had young kids) I would have to lose a days pay because that's how it is in the real world.

I agree with you, OP.

I have a 9 month old and I can't effectively clean with him around.

My mum was self employed and didn’t work for a company. My point was a lot of people on here keep saying she can’t do the job up to a good standard all because she had her child with her as a one off due to being let down last minute!
It clearly is doable as my mum did this? I clean my own home and have 5 children and I can keep my house clean? So how does this make the cleaner not capable all because she had her child with her.

costs of living are rising, she clearly wouldn’t have taken her child if it wasn’t completely necessary to do so, I worked in a convenience store and my sons dad would refuse to have him like an hour before me starting a shift! I can tell you now to all the people saying “it wouldn’t make a difference” it does make a lot of difference, I lost £80 for that day! So I completely understand why this cleaner would feel it necessary to take her child for a 2 hour job! Not an 8hr job but 2hrs!

I once had a tradesman in and I arrived home to find his 8 year old hiding in my downstairs loo. He’d apparently been “enjoying” testing all the beds whilst his dad worked. Last time I hired that guy.

YANBU and I genuinely can’t understand why anyone says you are. If something had happened to the child you’d have likely been blamed, and felt awful. Childcare issues are annoying but they don’t override a person’s right to control what happens in their own house, especially when they’re paying for a service to be carried out!