Why are we accepting migrant worker deaths in Qatar for the sake of entertainment?

[pieami]

I'm disgusted that we have accepted any deaths for the mere purpose of putting on a sporting event - totally unjustifiable. One death is too many. Why could the event not be held in a country with existing infrastructure?

One reports found "50 workers died and more than 500 others were seriously injured in Qatar in 2021 alone".

I have a feeling there is less of an outrage due to the workers being brown.

In fact it’s much lower than one would expect, perhaps migrant workers in Qatar are fitter than British workers?

The bit I highlighted explicitly stated that they are. No life limiting health conditions, no pre-existing health conditions, no obesity, no drugs. They are screened for health before they are permitted to even enter the country for work. I feel like you really need to go back and read what we've both linked to. It doesn't sound like you've fully understood it. Or your Qatari and deliberately being obtuse.

The reports counting migrant workers deaths don’t usually look at cause of death. So the numbers seem high, but there’s no way of knowing whether they died due to the workplace or at work or from other causes

That's interesting, and something I didn't know

Ity's true that the human rights record of the gulf states isn't the best, but all the same this is worth bearing in mind

I do understand it? To be clear, do you still think that 6,500 deaths over 10yrs out of a population of 1.7m workers is something to be concerned about? Yes or no?

Because the data shows that this is well below the death rate we have in the U.K. for 25-29yr old males.

This means that the media has written a shocking headline without giving any context. It might as well have written a headline “54,000 men under age 30 DEAD in U.K. over past ten years!!” (Also true)

It’s all OMG how horrible until you realise there is a constant attrition of people dying at all ages. The death rate increases as you get older, but it’s never the case that we all are going to get to pensioner age.

Now as to why the media wants to cast Qatar in the bad light, well there could be racism at play. The idea that only we “white” countries can take care of workers properly. That we are superior and so on.

Why do people accept migrant deaths to be able to get cheap clothes, smartphones, oil, tyres, cosmetics, everything else we buy?

To die because your employer puts you to work in extreme heat to keep the city looking clean, pretty and Instagram worthy is obscene. BUT it happens

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/mar/11/up-to-10000-asian-migrant-workers-die-in-the-gulf-every-year-claims-report

Or our fish and chips
www.theguardian.com/global/2022/may/17/migrant-workers-exploited-and-beaten-on-uk-fishing-boats

What exactly do you mean when you ask why are "we" accepting it?
Why don't you ask the people of the countries where this is happening what THEY are doing about it?

Yes its all white peoples fault... all the bad things that ever happen in this world and have ever happened... all white peoples fault... 🙄
What a simple world view some peoples simple minds come up with...

I do understand it? To be clear, do you still think that 6,500 deaths over 10yrs out of a population of 1.7m workers is something to be concerned about? Yes or no?

In the context of everything else in those articles, yes, it's fucking horrific. These aren't just statistics they're human beings who are being treated appallingly. Yet you sit here defending their abusers because you don't think enough have of them have died. Let's ignore the fact that the statistics are blurry and reporters who tried to investigate were arrested. Let's not think of the workers who desperately want to return home or go anywhere else but are trapped in slavery. Honestly, the names I want to scream at you right now...

Sigh that’s not the case at all. If those same workers were in the U.K. over 10,000 would have died not 6,500. The statistics do matter because they are not showing any evidence of abuse of workers in Qatar. Yes, not enough have died to support the narrative of Qatar being this awful place where workers are slaves being worked to death. There is zero evidence. The workers are not trapped and desperately go home in regards to the FIFA World Cup workers in Qatar- their travel to/from is paid in full by their employer plus they get a free trip home once a year (that’s more than most armed forces get when stationed abroad).

You aren’t understanding that 6,500 deaths over a span of ten years, or 650 deaths per year in a population of 1.7m is WELL BELOW what we’d expect from natural causes for that age group of men in their twenties.

I know every number is a human being but you have to look at things rationally. You can’t then sit there and say it’s horrific, Im ignoring abuse because enough didn’t die. That’s not the case. The issue is that if there were abuse more would have died, you wouldn’t have a death rate that is well below what we see in the U.K. where ok, we’re not perfect , but since Qatar is doing better than the U.K. at keeping workers alive we don’t have a leg to stand on accusing them of worker abuse.

SIGH

You still haven't read any of the articles either of us linked which detail the abuse of migrant workers. You're also ignoring the apples and pears comment. The 30 year old who grew up helping on a family farm in Nepal is very different to the 30 year old who grew up in a tower block in Manchester playing xBox. Looking at the death statistics in the Uk is useless because it includes young people who die from cancer, from pre-existing heart conditions, from asthma, from cystic fibrosis, from epilepsy or any other number of health conditions that don't exist in that migrant population because they're screened out. I also very much doubt they have to deal with drugs or knife crime that seems to be increasingly prolific here.

I have read the articles and they have a few anecdotes of abuse, but anecdotes of abuse abound in the U.K. Abuse of workers does happen, everywhere. The question is how does the level of fatalities amongst workers in Qatar compare to the U.K.? And when you compare, there’s no evidence of the horrific levels of abuse causing deaths that is being alleged by (racist white) media sources.

The 6,500 deaths reported in Qatar are ALL deaths from ALL causes- and ALL workers not just the ones fit enough to work construction. There are asthmatic house cleaners and nannies. Some construction workers even do have undiagnosed heart conditions as well. So many of these health conditions DO exist in migrant populations and the screening out of obviously bad ones for construction work would account for a death rate of only 6,500 when we’d expect to see 10,200 under normal circumstances.

I also very much doubt they have to deal with drugs or knife crime that seems to be increasingly prolific here.. This is absolutely laughable. You’ve obviously never been to the ME.

Oh for goodness sake. The irony of you defending a country that keeps foreign slaves and calling me the racist? I have more argents but we're clearly wasting our time here. Let's agree to disagree.

The U.K. has a higher rate of modern slaves per capita than Qatar does.
UK 2.08 in 1,000 people are slaves
Qatar 1.50 in 1,000 people are slaves

So yeah. We need to clean up our ownselves before casting shade on another country because they’re brown and Muslim.

@chilliesandspices
I wasn’t calling you racist, btw, I don’t think you are. I called the media racist for publishing such smears against Qatars construction efforts for the FIFA World Cup. The cold hard facts don’t support the narrative they are peddling with a few choice anecdotes of isolated deaths and cases of abuse. They wanted you to believe the workers are slaves being abused to death. That’s why they came up with the biggest headline number and published it with no context and no analysis against benchmarks.

I'd be interested to know how those statistics are gathered

Does the CCC and BBB relate to how accurate the statistics of each country are seen to be?

I know that when asylum seekers are met on arrival, assessments are completed as to whether they need a referral to the NRM, a very high number do, particularly children and females,, so they will make up a large number.

Who are the others?

I lived in Qatar for three years. Moved back 10 years ago and according to friends still out there nothing has changed.

It is an awful place for migrant workers in the construction and domestic jobs.

It's an absolute lottery on whether they get treated ok, if they get paid, if they get to keep their passports.

The construction workers living conditions are shocking.

Another example. There was a fire in a mall out there not long after I moved back, several young children died in the crèche. No one was held accountable for the lack of H&S/deaths (not entirely true, there was a scapegoat)

It's corrupt, their laws bounce around, they have a very different attitude to risk and death.

It was normal to see multiple kids bouncing around a car with no seatbelts on is probably the most day to day example of this.

It sounds bad, it is.

No, the CCC and BBB are ratings of the governments response to tackling modern slavery.
There is more about the Global Slavery Index here:
www.walkfree.org/projects/the-global-slavery-index/

What others?

Slavery is completely legal in Qatar as it is in Dubai and most of the Gulf States, would never travel to any of these places.

@bellac11
Here also is the pdf report with methodology and suchlike behind the index
downloads.globalslaveryindex.org/ephemeral/GSI-2018_FNL_190828_CO_DIGITAL_P-1659875919.pdf

No slavery was outlawed in Dubai and Qatar in 1952, Saudi Arabia in 1962.
The last country on the planet to outlaw slavery was Mauritania in 1981.

The slavery that exists today is modern slavery- all completely illegal, black market slavery.

Would you travel to India? One of the three top countries from where people migrate to Qatar. Because India is treating those people so bad that they choose to be ‘slaves’ in Qatar.

Like I said, this thread is nothing but a pointless exercise in ‘white saviour’ performative outrage.

@Discovereads

You’ve obviously done no research on this. Those laws and protections do not apply to MIGRANT workers. They have zero rights. There are many articles and videos on this.

About 40% of the population of Dubai are poor migrant workers who have there passports stolen, are lured in from very poor countries and promised well paid work, then are forced to work ridiculous hours in the boiling heat to pay back “debts” to their agencies, have no way of escaping, and yes it’s all legal.

@sst1234

Err no I wouldn’t travel to India and have no plans to. Why are you defending the disgusting abuse of people in the UAE? Why don’t you watch just ONE of the videos I linked above? Bear in mind this is all LEGAL and about 40% of the county is in this situation!