Why are we accepting migrant worker deaths in Qatar for the sake of entertainment?

[pieami]

I'm disgusted that we have accepted any deaths for the mere purpose of putting on a sporting event - totally unjustifiable. One death is too many. Why could the event not be held in a country with existing infrastructure?

One reports found "50 workers died and more than 500 others were seriously injured in Qatar in 2021 alone".

I have a feeling there is less of an outrage due to the workers being brown.

What are you on about? The thread is about construction fatalities for “the sake of entertainment” not modern day slavery?

Why are you bringing modern day slavery into the thread? Btw, I haven’t refuted or minimised it’s existence, just don’t understand why you are derailing the thread onto a completely different subject?

'Workers' are recruited from poor areas in poor countries, they are told all their expenses will be covered if they sign up to work for 1 or 2 years. They are offered a salary that to them is like a lottery win to us.

But when they arrive their passport is taken (common in Saudi for all workers, not sure about other countries) their 'accommodation' is a concrete box, if they are lucky they will have bunks, but they might have to sleep on the floor.

They are expected to work long hours with few breaks in 40+ degrees heat..

If they want to leave then they have to pay the cost of their flight and for the accommodation, they only get paid if they complete their contract.

At the end of their contract they may or may not see any pay.

That is slavery.

Thank you for making my point for me:

in 11 years we have taken 29,000 Syrians (if your figure is correct)

in less than a year we have taken in 104,000 Ukrainians. www.gov.uk/government/news/100000-ukrainians-welcomed-to-safety-in-the-uk

and @Fancydancer1934 whilst there are many many issues and complications around Syria and the war (not least it’s leader Assad), it is incredible naivety to assert that white people have nothing to do with it. Suggest you read about fall of Ottoman empire and what the French and British did with the Ottoman lands such as Syria and Lebanon (eg Sykes-Picot). And yes it was 100 years ago but the impact is still felt today.

Sorry for the thread derail OP, but it’s sadly a similar issue - in the UK non-whites don’t matter as much as whites but deny deny deny this is the case

We cannot poke the bear now and question it.
we need their oil, more than we ever have due to Russia.

but I agree. I don’t understand how they got it in the first place

I don’t think I have proved your point, which to remind you was that the U.K. was doing everything in its power to prevent Syrian refugees from coming here. That’s so obviously not the case.

5 million refugees from the Syrian War
17 million (so far) refugees from Ukrainian War
(If you want to look at time scale, we started taking Syrian refugees 11yrs ago when the war started, but we didn’t start taking Ukranian refugees until 7yrs after that war started)

So there are roughly 3 Ukranian refugees for every Syrian Refugee. So you’d expect to see 1 Syrian refugee for every 3 Ukranian refugees in the U.K., and guess what 29,000 Syrians is a little less than 1/3rd of 104,000 Ukranians?

It wouldn’t be an exact 1:3 ratio though because refugees choose where to go for asylum. Many Syrian refugees preferred to go to Turkey or other ME countries like Jordan as it’s a more similar culture, religion, language and climate than the U.K.

Er, that’s not the case for the Workers on the Qatar World Cup. Have you even read the worker welfare reports?
www.workerswelfare.qa/en/news-and-reports

I stopped watching/reading/listening to the news a few years back when an international newsworthy event broke my heart and there was nothing i could do about it, so i made my world smaller. As a result i now learn about newsworthy items in weird ways, one of which is MN posts. Qatar isn't a place I'd visit and i don't know what the reference is here so I'll have a google.

The footballers are so quick to take the knee, but not a word about this. Sickening hypocrisy.

I live in Qatar, and my experience was that there was very much a ranking system or preferred race. Nepalese, Indian and Bangladeshi workers were sadly at the very bottom of the pile.

In addition to this, Qatari nationals were untouchable. They could literally do anything to anyone and get away with it. A British girl was raped and murdered by her Qatari boyfriend, and he and his friend burned her body in the desert. They originally got done for it but the case has been appealed so many times and the accomplice barely spent any time in prison. Am not sure what happened to the murderer but I know he isn't doing the time he was supposed to.
The girl's poor, poor mother has been tormented for years, trying to get justice.

If you die in a road traffic accident because of something a local did, the corruption would mean they get off.

I've seen domestic workers being verbally abused and even saw a national slapping a shop worker before. Lots of the security guards were of the ethnicities stated above, and they had absolutely no authority over the Qataris.

I knew that if anything ever happened to me, I wouldn't stand a chance against a Qatari national. The domestic workers were generally treated appalingly. The construction workers, 'nannies', cleaners, etc were often treated as subhuman.

For the purposes of stirring up outrage at racism, the Syrians are being classed as brown. For the purposes of stirring up even more racism, white people are to blame for everything. How dare (white ) Ukranians seek refuge here!

Lived, I left years ago.

NO difference in Abu Dhabi workers die in the heat there

What do you want me to do OP?

I have a list of places I wouldn't visit, I have boycotted certain companies and I give money to charity. I am not accepting of any deaths but I am feeling burnout. I feel like I have spent my entire adult life being outraged and nothing gets better.

You can always decline to buy Qatari oil at the pumps if you feel so bad about it - Saudi oil too possibly? Most ME regimes are highly discriminatory, and incidentally, discriminate in favour of Muslims and against non-muslims.

What about all those reasonably priced clothes manufactured in Bangladesh, Vietnam etc. by heavily exploited workforces?

And then there's the metals used within the i-phones and mobile devices many are reading this very article with - mined by African workers in very precarious circumstances and some of whom are actual slaves?

I think Qatar is a bizarre location for the world cup, but really can't see why it should be singled out. Just look around you and at your own endogenous consumption.

@Usou those details will go straight over the head of people like the OP who seem to view the world's problems exclusively through the prism of race.

Actually, not even race, just skin tone.

This is one of those pointless moralising threads full of white saviour syndrome.

Oh, look at us, aren’t we so caring and sharing, being vocally outraged. Code for: this is my good deed for the day, pat me on the back.

So let’s see some statistics for the bigger picture. Qatar is made up of almost 80% migrant population. The largest groups are from India, Bangladesh and Nepal. Average monthly wage in Bangladesh is $150. Average wage in Qatar is over $3000. And yes averages are made of high numbers but even the lowest paid Qatari construction worker earns around $1000 a month.

So here’s a typical scenario of a Bangladeshi worker migrating to Qatar. Poorly educated, responsible for elderly parents, who dictating younger siblings, marrying off the older ones. Has a wife, 4-5 children, doesn’t own his own home, cannot get a job in his own country without paying a bribe to officials, cannot get his children into state school as most teachers never turn up but claim a wage. Public healthcare is non-existent because funding normally gets gobbled by corrupt officials.

Now weigh up, which country treats him better. Early mortality is a far greater risk for his entire family in his own country. Than for himself in Qatar.

@Discovereads You’re figures are utter bollocks:

12m Ukrainian refugees www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-60555472

13.4m Syrian refugees (as of March 2021) www.unhcr.org/uk/syria-emergency.html

As for us trying our best to stop Syrians coming in; they were due to be on the first Rwanda flight out (thankfully blocked legally - for now) news.sky.com/story/syrian-and-afghan-refugees-on-first-deportation-flight-to-rwanda-say-charities-12625201

There are a further 76,000 Syrians waiting to be given asylum too www.unhcr.org/uk/asylum-in-the-uk.html

Finally - how many Syrian flags have you seen flying in the UK compared to Ukrainian ones? We stand with the Ukrainians, we don’t stand with the Syrians.

Qatar have spent money on bribes to get the World cup in the first place, rather than spending it on skilled/qualified staff to build the stadia in a safe manner.

@Scautish
I wouldn’t say my figures were “utter bollocks” any more than yours are as it appears we’ve both made an error.

12m Ukrainian refugees www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-60555472
Yes I had a typo, I accidentally transposed that as 17m due to my dyslexia.

13.4m Syrian refugees (as of March 2021) www.unhcr.org/uk/syria-emergency.html* No that’s incorrect. The 13.4m number from your link is the # of people needing humanitarian assistance, if you look lower, on the page you will see that the UNHCR reports 6.6m refugees from the Syrian war.* (My 5m was from an older source but not wildly off.)

So its
12m Ukranian refugees to
6.6m Syrian refugees

or a 2:1 instead of 3:1 as I mistakenly thought. But my point still stands, there’s no evidence we are “doing everything to prevent Syrian refugees from getting here”. Read: commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9381/
“Since 2014, 29,000 Syrians have been granted asylum or another form of humanitarian protection in the UK. Around two thirds (20,300) were resettled through the Vulnerable Person Resettlement Scheme (VPRS), a programme set up in 2014 to resettle vulnerable people displaced by the Syrian conflict (see section 2.3 of the briefing for data sources).”
”The UK has provided a total of £3.7 billion in official development assistance (ODA) to Syria from 2011 to 2021.”
“Since August 2014, the UK has conducted airstrikes in Iraq and Syria against the Islamic State (IS), under Operation Shader, and provided military support to the US-led coalition. Operations in Syria began in December 2015.
As of July 2021, the RAF has flown 8,700 sorties and released 4,300 precision weapons (eg, missiles) to target IS across the region.
As of 30 September 2021, one member of the UK armed forces has been killed in action during Operation Shader and three have suffered battle injuries. A further three military personnel died on operation, but not in hostile action.
The most recent figures to 2019/20 show that the cost of Operation Shader has amounted to £2 billion in real terms since 2014. The cost of operations peaked in 2017/18 and has since fallen by around 74%. This fall is largely attributed to a reduction in equipment and infrastructure costs.”

As for us trying our best to stop Syrians coming in; they were due to be on the first Rwanda flight out (thankfully blocked legally - for now) news.sky.com/story/syrian-and-afghan-refugees-on-first-deportation-flight-to-rwanda-say-charities-12625201. But that’s not directed towards Syrians but a new dead cat policy towards anyone doing a channel crossing. Which makes no sense for Syrians given the asylum application programs we have in place that allows for applications to be made from outside the U.K. The Rwanda idea wasn’t to “stop Syrians”.

There are a further 76,000 Syrians waiting to be given asylum too www.unhcr.org/uk/asylum-in-the-uk.html. Yes, if you follow your link these are the Syrian applications for asylum in EU, EEA and Switzerland. The applications from Syrians for the U.K. are 2,303. Not every refugee wants to come to the U.K. 🤷‍♀️ They do get to choose where to apply for asylum.

Finally - how many Syrian flags have you seen flying in the UK compared to Ukrainian ones? We stand with the Ukrainians, we don’t stand with the Syrians.
This is a strange (and petty) point to make. The Syrian War was a civil war, so flying a Syrian flag would be meaningless as it’s the same flag for both sides in the war? And if you are referring to the ISIS fighting in Syria, what would be the point of flying a flag then as ISIS was attacking multiple nations including ourselves? And we “don’t stand with Syria” but have sent billions in military aid and British troops, a few of which have even died fighting for Syria.

Who said non whites don't matter as much? You? So that's your opinion and not a fact. Do you think non white people think that white people don't matter? Or is it only possible to be racist if you're white? FWIW the location of the world cup is obviously down to corruption and I shouldn't be hosted there but we can't control events outside our country. I strongly disagree with teenage girls being forced into marriage for example - but that's acceptable practice in some countries (and in the UK it would seem). If I could stop it I would - but we can't. I suppose that's a white person's fault as well.

Suggest you read about fall of Ottoman empire and what the French and British did with the Ottoman lands such as Syria and Lebanon

Ottoman lands? The Ottoman lands were Turkey. The rest of their Empire were lands they invaded, conquered and colonised. Their empire included most of Eastern Europe including Greece, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Romania, Slovakia, Hungary, and parts of Austria and Poland.

Syria (which at the time included modern day Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Israel/Palestine) was conquered by the Ottomans in 1516. And when in 1914 Ottoman troops began a campaign of genocide against the Armenian and Assyrian Christians in nearby Turkey region of the Ottoman Empire, the French & British decided to intervene and took over Damascus & Aleppo bringing Syria under French control in 1920- taking it from the Ottoman Empire. This then became a place for the fleeing Armenian and Assyrian Christian refugees (and later Kurds as the Ottomans started massacring them too) to find safety and resettle as the Ottoman genocides continued on until WWII.

France had agreed to give Syria its independence in 1936 but this was delayed when the Nazis took over France. So Syria didn’t fully gain its independence back for first time since 1516 until 1944.

@sashh

So, I’ve given you the links to read the welfare reports regarding the workers in Qatar on the World Cup. I’m going to summarise briefly how they differ from what you posted.

“Workers' are recruited from poor areas in poor countries, they are told all their expenses will be covered if they sign up to work for 1 or 2 years. They are offered a salary that to them is like a lottery win to us.” True, the workers are offered a salary that meets Qatar minimum wage laws.

“But when they arrive their passport is taken (common in Saudi for all workers, not sure about other countries)” Not true unless the worker requests it be securely stored for them on their behalf- as some do fear identity theft. If they choose this option, they always have access to their passport.

“their 'accommodation' is a concrete box, if they are lucky they will have bunks, but they might have to sleep on the floor.” Not true, the welfare standards specifically state no bunk beds but actual beds and a limit of 4 workers per large bedroom. They also have locking storage cupboards by their beds, wardrobes, a water cooler, window and each bedroom shares a bathroom. The pictures are minimalist, but frankly comparable to the average Uni accommodation we have here in the U.K. for students.

“They are expected to work long hours with few breaks in 40+ degrees heat..”
Not true. Qatar law forbids outside work between 10:00 and 15:30 from 1 June to 15 September or if the heat index exceeds 32C regardless of what time of day it is. They also are issued cooling work wear as PPE and rest breaks can be taken at will. In addition, work hours are limited to 8hrs a day plus 2hrs overtime- so a max of 10hrs per day. They do get overtime rates of pay.

“If they want to leave then they have to pay the cost of their flight and for the accommodation, they only get paid if they complete their contract.” Not true. All accommodation and meals are free. If they leave, they owe nothing for accommodation or food. Their travel to/from is paid for by the company plus they get one free round trip flight home annually if they stay longer than a year. In addition, they are given free healthcare to include regular health screenings.

“At the end of their contract they may or may not see any pay.” Not true. They are paid monthly. The pay isn’t withheld.

This thread is about the construction of the World Cup stadiums in Qatar. It’s not about Saudi or anywhere else. If you have some evidence that slaves are being worked to death to build stadiums in Qatar please post it. don’t just post some preconceptions you have about Saudi - not the same country even if they all look the same to you.

Totally agree with you OP it's vile and racist

@MsPincher ah well I'll just clear my mind of the deaths elsewhere then 🙄