To think to get nice things DSS needs to go to school!

[onthebus22]

DSS is 15, is bright but is naturally lazy and will do the minimum. Isn't badly behaved but certainly knows how to push his teachers buttons. Over the past 12 months he has been trying to find less and less reasons to attend school. He isn't being bullied. He wants to be home schooled, he doesn't see why we can wfh and he can't. In his view he can get his course work done in 2 hours why spend 6 hours in school. We don't want to home school him. None of us have the capacity, although his mum is so exhausted by the fight she is considering starting her working day at 4am, so she can help him in the afternoon, which is madness. He wants to go to uni, but has no idea what to study. Last term he was frustrated by his grades B + / C's, but he really did the minimum. This term he'll get a shock because he's hardly been there. Are we being unreasonable to start to using 'nice things' as an incentive for him to go to school, at the moment we had a restaurant booked (his choice) this weekend and we are currently planning a trip to Asia. Do we cancel dinner? And say he need 100% to come on holiday or will that just push him further lack of motivation?

I would probably start having consequences for lack of effort rather than rewards for doing what he should be doing anyway.
But it's your rod and your back 🤔

Whatever works, honestly whatever... Go for ease.

But if nice doesn't you might need to try a harsher route.

Is there anything he likes that you could encourage him with. Any long term wants, ambitions etc.

To be honest after the last couple of years I thing apathy is a thing. My 13 year old is borderline. I think the stress of everything with Covid has made them avoidant, rather than lazy.

*thinK. Think apathy is a thinG

I don’t think so
you get ‘paid’ for your work
so if he’s doing things he needs to be doing for you he can get ‘paid’ but make sure the goals are achievable
be prepared to add in punishments as well as rewards

also ask him to work out how homeschooling works, and how he’ll factor in the time and costs into your day to make it worth it - he won’t be able to
or he will have better ideas and his mum won’t have to get up at 4am

There are online courses, like Khan academy. If he is genuinely not going to school now, there is nothing to lose by trying homeschooling, but at 15 it would have to be his responsibility. Could you or his dm help him set up a lesson plan and give him responsibility to get on with it, so that his dm can keep working regular hours? He would also need to get registered somewhere as an external candidate to take GCSEs and Alevels, could his present school advice how to do that? Did his teacher have any advice? Is he just lazy or could there be another issue, maybe bullying or ASD or ADHD? Or simply a romantic relationship gone sour, so he avoids school?

You need to get to the bottom of why he hates school - is he possibly "high functioning" autistic or does he have adhd? Most school refusers in my experience are autistic but non -diagnosed.

Also if he's bright and committed to home schooling he could probably do a lot more at home than he does at school; at his age you would just have to get him set up online initially and then he should be able to do the rest himself. He's right that so much time out of the school day is spent faffing about and he could actually get through more stuff at home.

I think kids are running into real problems if they want to be schooled from home, then they'll expect to be able to work from home, then they'll not leave home at all.

He sounds lazy and a clown (at the better end of the naughty spectrum) in school. Pushing teachers buttons on a regular basis is not normal or endearing for them. I doubt they see him as a cheeky chap or something.

In general does he contribute to the household and do chores?

My guess would be he wants to home school because it appears less work and the easiest option to him. I would shut that drown immediately as impossible. He doesn't have the motivation or self-discipline to make it successful.

He needs a long term reality check and incentives. Knowing & understanding coat of living/luxuries, what career he would like would earn, therefore uni courses, grades needed etc. Dinner and holidays for attending schools is a bit pathetic.

You say you can work from home, is there still an option to work from the office? Maybe go back in to normalise leaving the house, show a dividing line between home and work.

Like others have said, probably something more fundamental going on, but if that is a reason being used, take it away if you can.

I'd talk to the school and see if he can do some sort of flexi schooling.

But I would be tough on the home school aspect. I would want really high marks.

So basically he would go to school part time and then complete work at home. On his home days he would be studying for 6 hours a day. No TV, No internet unless it is school work. If he says he has completed the work then he can read or he can do past GCSE papers.

With the past papers he has to answer every question even if it is a paper with options, he can use books to do this but not the internet.

He gets a 10 min break in the morning and a break for lunch.

One of two things will happen, he will either think school is easier and go back full time or he will thrive on his own.

I know you are probably rolling your eyes and saying 'no way' but think about it and discuss it with his parents first and then with him.

Explain to him that school is not just about the academic work. It;s about learning to get on with other people, negotiate difficult people, from teachers to bullies to any other unwanted attention, as well as th emore positive aspects of 'accidental learning' where you end uyp chatting to someone and discovering some interesting thing or finding out you share an interest or a teacher in passing asks if you'd like to help on a project that turns out to be a step towards your life career.

He can't find out about life - a whole, fulfilling life - from behind a screen and closed doors. If he needs help with anxiety about attending school, that's one thing but if he thinks he can reduce the sum total of all school offers him to a couple of hours online a day he is misinformed. Nor is he old enough or wise enough to make that decision for himself. He needs to go back to school and learn how to participate in real life.

Spot on.

I feel that more and more the traditional school system isn’t suiting kids these days. My son has just started homeschooling, so he does a mixture of studying by himself but he also does online group work through things like Zoom and a messaging app. I think this focuses on skills that are important for the future like communicating using different tools and decision making. My son has autism so this kind of schooling suits him and he is much more productive than he’d be in a traditional school.

I wouldn’t necessarily dismiss home-schooling without looking into it.

I think maybe people are misunderstanding what kind of home-schooling is available these days. Kids aren't just stuck in a room by themselves studying by themselves, a lot of online schools are interactive and supportive. They do have opportunities to engage with other students and in some ways it can be easier to connect with students who have similar niche interests. My sons' online school has lectures by leaders in their field and they can ask questions and get advice. So, for example, if your child is really interested in graphic design, they can do a course on graphic design, post their work, get feedback, ask questions about technical issues. They can't do this at a regular school. So, it can be more engaging and interesting for children to learn about stuff that is actually interesting for them and speak to other students who are interested in the same things and also have a lot of talent and ability.

I do think they are learning skills that will help them in the future.

I’d put the ball in his court to start with asking him to come up with a presentation to you and his parents with what and how Homeschooling will look like, what and how will he learn with all the details, this solution should not mean his mother needs to wake up at 4am.

Likewise ask him to create some S.M.A.R.T goals that you , parents and him agree to in regards to results, provide him with a deadline to present this information and I will bet you he won’t be ready! If he’s not prepared to do the leg work he is not mature or ready for home school

I think your attention is on the wrong thing. This is not about nice things or how you reward your DS. You've got a much more fundamental problem to deal with.

Your DS doesn't have good grounds for wanting homeschooling. If he was a self-starter with good grades, maybe his rationale would make sense. But he's looking for the easiest path because he's lazy. If he wants to go to university, he won't do it like this.

You and your DW don't have the foundation for offering homeschooling. You're out of your minds to think 4am starts are a reasonable reaction to his demands, when you recognise yourself that they're borne out of laziness.

You and your DW have already developed the life skills that enable you to effectively WFH. Your DS isn't demonstrating that he has that, but few 15 year olds do. He needs school.

Virtually all my friends with 15 year old boys found them impossible to motivate. They outgrew it. But I don’t think you should be rewarding him for lazy behaviour.

My middle son was a school refuser at 15 and school recommended practically bribing him if he went eg: cd and films. I did buy him things and he would go in and then come home. I thought it was a bad idea it didn't work and I stopped when my 2 other kids both said "how come he gets stuff for not going and we don't get anything for going in". They're not wrong. He ended up leaving school without any qualifications.
No advice just saying that bribery (which is what it is) does not work.

If he can't be bothered to attend school how is he going to attend uni ? Sorry but there's just too much fannying around kids these days. He sounds lazy to me. Why would you home school ? Just tell him we all ha e to do things we don't want to in life and school is one of them. Life sucks sometimes but we have to get on with it. In 3 years he will be a man ! Think what sort of man you are making him

I do think some kids think lockdown school is how homeschoolong is.haha which it really isn't.
That was the bare minimum with us.enough to keep them going and seem more than anything and not even that some days.
Homeschoolong is school at home.alltjough I no now alot of parent go for more homeopathic routes.
Could You go through with him what an actual homeschool would be now,to sit alongside what he'd miss by not be.i g at school.

From a teacher's perspective, offering him these 'carrots' to do the bare minimum will not improve his work ethic in school. I firmly believe in the value of the social aspect of school: since the pandemic, so many students just don't know how to talk to each other; behave around each other or in a formal environment. Unless you are confident that he'll keep developing these skills through homeschooling, I, personally, wouldn't entertain the idea.
If he just can't be arsed, none of you should be bending over backwards to facilitate him thinking he can opt out of school. His parents need to have a really frank discussion about what his results will look like if he keeps putting in minimal effort and that this will mean he's unlikely to get into uni. He is also a child and is legally required to attend school: if there are no other concerns and it's just laziness, then he needs to understand that it's not a choice.
He has very little time left at school, in comparison to the proportion of his life that this current attitude will impact. Maybe have a look at his school's 39 week plans for year 11 and count down the weeks left with him - it's not even a full year in Y11. Look at the content he's covering and plan some 'carrots' ahead for him to work towards - I.e. After November mocks, after completion of a key piece of coursework, if he can move his current grade in English up to the next one etc. This is more like what he'll experience as rewards for hard work and success as an adult. Maybe see if he wants to take up a hobby outside of school, to develop his resilience and sense of achievement in something lower stakes.
Rewarding him for doing the minimum will make the next year even harder for him, you and his teachers, and will teach him nothing at all about resilience and hard work.

Also when did kids stop listening to mum and dad.
When they can't home school it's just NOT possible.
Can't get up at 4am.hoe f* selfish.
Won't go to school?
I no there was always the certain kids that had these problems and so.e serious behaviour issues which meant they didn't but not just seen as the norm.not like we are actually writing considered posts about it as if it needs discussing!
The amount of rage my sister had about getting her ass to school lol.we look back and laugh now but she was a gitface.
Before people pile on:Top of her field now.london inwr city job with travel.not damaged by the arguments and been forced to go.a beautiful being.
She was punished if she didn't go.no going out.phone calls.dial up.money.more immediate and future wishes bartered.

You could pick some subjects and tell him he has August to homeschool himself in them. If he does well consider it, if not then he has proved it won't work?

Also, have you been through 6th form / college options with him? What grades does he need to get to do what he wants to do next? What will his current grades get him into? After y11 what would be the consequences of him not being in education (eg allowance stopped, locked out of wifi, whatever).

This is very good advice. And I can’t believe I got this far down the thread before someone pointed out he is legally required to be in school. I wouldn’t be contemplating taking my child on a big expensive long haul holiday if their laziness and twisted view of homeschooling was putting me at risk of criminal sanctions.