To be done with cyclists (as a car driver).

[bluegardenflowers]

Have cycled in the past but now only drive.

I'm a considerate driver and always allow plenty of room when overtaking and am patient in following the cyclist when it's unsafe to overtake and leave a big gap. I take care when left turning. They are more vulnerable on the road.

Yet I've been sworn at be a cyclist and it's pissing me off.

Yesterday on a busy road I saw the cyclist and was busy scanning ahead to make sure I could give him half a carriageways room to overtake. I started my overtake as he was wafting his arm around and looking back. It wasn't a clear right turn signal more a 30 degree flap around before swerving into the part of the road I was on, and swearing at me.

Ffs. If you want to turn right, stick your bloody arm out fully and make a clear signal. No wonder drivers and cyclists hate each other.

I don’t really know what you think it achieves to keen deliberately misconstrue everything I say.

I'm just kinda misunderstanding what you're saying. You're appear to be saying that cyclists shouldn't follow the highway code because some people, not yourself of course, will drive badly and endanger them. I find that an odd way to look at it. It's a bit victim blamey

I filter when riding and use my combined experience as a daily driver and rider to move up safely, it is after all me that will come off badly in a collision

@Sandinmyknickers It was a busy road but in that moment not particularly busy. It's a wide road with industrial units so normally a busy road as opposed to a country road. My diagram shows there wasn't much traffic about. And it wouldn't have been me hitting him, he would have been the one hitting the side of my car.

I don't have a problem with having a different opinion but ranting and sounding a bit of a loony whilst accusing cyclists of being the same is weird. There's nothing brave about being on an anonymous internet forum is there?

@Lockheart of course overtaking is necessary. Do I wait until all the parked cars and cyclists move away? It's necessary to keep traffic flowing.

No, it’s not necessary to overtake a cyclist. You just have to deal with moving a bit more slowly until you reach somewhere where it’s actually safe to overtake. Which it wasn’t where you describe.

Yes, you do wait!

You must only enter a hatched area if it is absolutely necessary (e.g. to avoid an accident or a hazard). It is not to be used for overtaking.

When overtaking you must wait until it is safe and legal to do so.

@lockhart so I wait for a parked car to move before I overtake it? Seriously?. Literally nothing would move on a road if everyone did that. You overtake when necessary. You can overtake a slower moving vehicle, when it is safe to do so. Can you actually drive a car?

@AppleBottomRats So I could see there were no cars on the side road, nothing behind me (I checked) no cars ahead for a good while, so it was safe. I was hesitant about the hatched are but I could easily not gone onto and been nearer the cyclist. There was space in the road to safely overtake him and leave a significant gap, but I wanted to be doubly sure. At the time I decided to overtake he had both hands on the handlebars, no hard arsed signal and no head turn. So thanks for that advice I will make sure I pass nearer cyclists in future rather than give them a huge and unnecessary wide berth.

Yes, you do wait until it is safe and legal to overtake anything - even a parked car.

What you must not do is overtake by a junction (which you did), drive in a hatched area (which you did), or be unobservant to other road users signals (which you did).

I've had drivers swear at me when I've been cycling two abreast with a friend, which is permissible under the new Highway Code rules.

It' permissable except on busy roads which, let's be honest, rules out a shitload of roads.

That said I'm sympathetic to cyclists. I've no doubt that proportionally there are far more bad drivers.

You didn’t check it was safe, because it wasn’t safe.

If a car in front or you slowed to turn without indicating and you crashed into the back of it you would be at fault as you didn’t leave enough braking distance, this is the same scenario, you didn’t leave enough distance to allow them to move over and signal safely. They probably left it last minute because they were nervous of your driving and didn’t want to let go of the handle bars.

An awful lot of people have explained how you were in the wrong, they have also provided evidence from the Highway Code. If you aren’t going to accept it and take it on board please stop driving. It tears families apart when relatives are killed on the road, and I imagine it will tear yours apart when you go to prison for dangerous driving.

Can you just read and follow the Highway Code please? This is getting tedious. No matter what you tell yourself, it was wrong and illegal to overtake approaching a junction.

The new wording is:

Rule 66
You should

avoid any actions that could reduce your control of your cycle
be considerate of the needs of other road users when riding in groups. You can ride two abreast and it can be safer to do so, particularly in larger groups or when accompanying children or less experienced riders. Be aware of drivers behind you and allow them to overtake (for example, by moving into single file or stopping) when you feel it is safe to let them do so
not ride close behind another vehicle in case it stops suddenly
not carry anything which will affect your balance or may get tangled up with your wheels or chain
be considerate of other road users, particularly blind and partially sighted pedestrians, and horse riders (see Rule H1). Let them know you are there when necessary, for example, by calling out or ringing your bell if you have one. It is recommended that a bell be fitted.

And has been that way since January

You are an extremely dangerous driver. Not only are you wrong, but despite being told so numerous times, including references to Highway Code, you are insisting you know better.

Your ignorance is criminal. Grow up.

You say you are done with cyclists. Have you ever had a car do something stupid in front of you (change lanes at the last minute for example)? If so, are you also done with drivers?

@Mummyneedsacoffee - I think I am projecting my towns cycle infrastructure to other places incorrectly. We have lots of segregated, well maintained (they are mostly newish) cycle lanes which are often ignored by cyclists as it would force cyclists to use the towns one way system which many cyclists currently avoid by using a mixture of the roads, pedestrianised shopping zones and pavements, to the detriment of pedestrians.

You were the bad driver in this situation. He indicated right, checked over his shoulder and moved over to the right to take position. Why didn’t you hold back?

The overtake while you're on a bike signalling to turn right is a classic driver-not-paying-attention manoeuvour. Some drivers actually speed up to overtake you, as if its a signal. I don't have very long arms and I'm now wondering if this is a problem. I do wear hi-viz but it still happens. Careful drivers assess the situation and respond to a cyclist moving out as well as signalling, but sometimes the signal isn't always perfect. You have to expect these things while driving and if you are going at the right speed, it shouldn't be difficult.

@Smokealarmwakeup There were no cars in front of me, behind me or in the side road. A car was far ahead incoming, but not any danger.

An awful lot of people have also said the cyclist was in the wrong for a) signalling late b) ambiguous signalling and c) starting his turn when the road wasn't clear as I was overtaking him.

@AppleBottomRats I wasn't overtaking on the other side of the road so zero risk at the junction, especially as it was quite empty and no cars on it (v clear visibility along the road).

You say I was in the wrong but a cyclist who wasn't observing the road, wasn't signalling correctly and made a dangerous manoeuvre potentially into the side of my car was in the right? Yeah, nah!

He only did this when I was already committed to overtake and around 3 M from his junction. That makes him a responsible cyclist? Unfortunately I don't understand wafting your arm around as a valid right turn indication, neither does the Highway Code.

Except they did signal and your car should never have been there in the first place, because you were the one doing the illegal manoeuvre…

The only reason he might have hit your side was because you pressed ahead with the manoeuvre despite him moving across the lane, forcing him behind you and effectively cutting him up into the bargain

If I hadn't continued the manoeuvre he would certainly have hit the side of my car. Fortunately I gave him the whole of the left carriageway so he only pulled in behind me.

Highway Code 67 rule. He broke (seriously) both of these. His actions were dangerous.

I've annotated your diagram to show what your road position would look like to the cyclist. You looked like you would follow the red dots, so the cyclist would be perfectly safe and happy taking the green route alongside you.
You actually took the blue route and cut him up (from his point of view).
He'd have no way of knowing that you intended to carry on along the road until the moment you moved left a bit at the right turn junction.
You did nothing to indicate to him that you were overtaking not turning.
Even his "half arsed" signalling was better than your no signalling at all.