CF Tourists - is it worse ??

[WeWillLookBack]

We have just got back from a few days in Cornwall - we live in Devon, so spend a lot of time in both counties and are very used to tourists and holiday makers. We stayed in a 'pub with rooms on the beach, which was lovely. However - I am utterly gobsmacked by the level of CF we have witnessed in the 3 days. It feels like peoples entitlement is off the scale. I don't know how those in hospitality are dealing with it.

Wednesday - Woman went mental at the poor young lad serving in the beer garden - insisted she had booked a table outside. Very politely told her that they do not take reservations for the garden, just the restaurant. Screaming ' Are you calling me a liar'. He went in, and didn't come back out.

Friday AM - they serve breakfast for guests 8am-9.30am, then open for breakfast at 9.30am (lots of signs saying open at 9.30am). At 8.30am a group were outside - rattling the door. Member of staff opens the door, and lets them know they open at 9.30am. Lots of moaning - insisting they can have breakfast now etc. She says no - very polite. So he tells her it is disgusting that they allow guests to sit in the window eating when others can't ! ( and to make up for their error, they should serve them breakfast too)

Friday evening - Family of 6 rocked up - no space in the beer garden. Started shouting - so the owner came out. Man very angry - they had driven for 6 hours - and the kids needed feeding. The owner was great - polite but firm. The man actually suggested the owner walk around the beer garden and checked when people were leaving so they could secure a table. He said no. A lot of swearing. Asked to leave.

Drive home Saturday morning. Along a winding road along the coast - car in front just stops. Man gets out and stands looking at the sea. Single lane - so I cant go around him. After a few moments I beep - he stomps over to my car and says 'Can I help you' ... I say you have blocked the road - could you move please. To which he responds 'I am looking at the view - maybe you could just be kind' FFS !!!

Yeah my neighbour is German. A Hospital consultant and been here 20 odd years.(I am guessing because i have lived here 18 years and she predates me). 4 children and her DH is British. She had serious hoops to jump through and had alot of anxiety about it all.

We can all use anecdotes and claim they are proof of something.

Over 6 million applications have been granted, around 230 000 have been refused. That's around 4 or 5%, so it can't be that hard. This is not an anecdote, it's statistics.

People left because of Brexit, not necessarily because of the EUSS or other paperwork. It was the fact that they were not wanted. Why stick somewhere where you get abused and government creates hostile environment for you when there are shed load of countries you can go to and have better life...

Re EUSS, very few people were refused, usually the refusal was because something was filled up wrong. You really just had to provide minimum paperwork and got it. Easy peasy compared to PR before! Being refused twice is VERY rare

People left because of Brexit, not necessarily because of the EUSS or other paperwork. It was the fact that they were not wanted. Why stick somewhere where you get abused and government creates hostile environment for you when there are shed load of countries you can go to and have better life...

Some did. How many do you think have left?

To the 6 million number.

It's not 6 million EU citizents (since there was about 3 million of us here...), It's 6 million EUSS applications which include non EEA family members.

Many people also applied with no intention of staying here, but just in case so they can come and easily visit friends and family.

I wouldn't guesss an exact number but quite a few. From what I've seen on our community pages

Around 230 000 thousand, according to Bloomberg, so it can be a bit off, but hopefully not by much.

Also, there is the entitlement to come and join family here, again part of the EUSS and many do. I don't have numbers for that though, so cannot say how many.

It's again around 4% of the granted EUSS. It's not that many.

And many of those who did leave did so because of the lockdowns. After all, why would you want to be stuck indoors in another country with no work when you could be with your family?

No mention of the comment I was replying to, which said that the process took 20 mins, was straightforward and implied that it wasn't a barrier to EU citizens staying in the UK.

The fact is on the day of the vote well over 50% of the staff on the large hospital department i was working in were European. Of those, I can count on one hand the ones who are still in the UK. Most didn't even bother applying to stay they just moved back home or even to the UAE, Saudi, Canada or Australia.

There are plenty stats showing the healthcare workers who left in droves after Brexit even pre pandemic.

No mention of the comment I was replying to, which said that the process took 20 mins, was straightforward and implied that it wasn't a barrier to EU citizens staying in the UK.

Well, if 95% of the people who have applied have managed to do so successfully, and considering many of them don't speak English, then it can't have been that hard, now, can it?

Nope.
Some people had issue that their NIN record apparently didn't show all, but that was easily sorted by uploading copies of things like council tax.

Compared to PR previously this was walk in a park!

Also, a very quick google suggests there are 22 000 HCP from the EU who have left. Considering that the NHS is the biggest employer in the UK with over 1.5 million people working for them, then 22 000 does not appear all that significant as a number.

Look, I have ranted about Brexit many times and I still think it was a monumental mistake.

But the numbers are what they are.

Most didn't even bother applying to stay they just moved back home or even to the UAE, Saudi, Canada or Australia.

The UAE, Saudi Arabia, Canada and Australia are well known members of the EU of course...

Err show me where said that. I was talking about how many EU staff just upped and left the UK after the vote rather than apply for settlement where they felt they weren't wanted/weren't valued.

They might have returned home but they're not picking up the slack in their own countries across Europe they're short staffed in many areas of employment

Yes lost likely they are. My friends who run hospitality businesses in my home country don't seem to be struggling for staff though. Not my area of expertise and certainly not what any of my previous comments were about since my experience is completely as someone who deals with staffing issues in the NHS on the daily and has done for over a decade.

Yes lost likely they are. My friends who run hospitality businesses in my home country don't seem to be struggling for staff though. Not my area of expertise and certainly not what any of my previous comments were about since my experience is completely as someone who deals with staffing issues in the NHS on the daily and has done for over a decade.

Hang on, are they working in hospitality for your friend or are they HCPs who have left the NHS where you work in staffing?

Dreadful.
My daughter works airport security and is genuinely flabbergasted by the general public. She's not a negative Nancy, nor am I. But the level of entitlement is mind blowing.

I did airport work some 20 years ago, and don't remember it being like that at all. Times really have changed.

I have had this conversation in varying forms this past week (we are sort of on holiday and have people staying with us)

we on the whole feel that something quite intangible has changed in society the past 2 years. People are less tolerant, more entitled, and more demanding even in situations where it is highly inappropriate. It is like the veneer of the civil part of civil society has been stripped away and people are all about themselves and their own needs.

It's hard to articulate the change, but a number of us feel that there has been a change.

What? I can both work in the NHS where I manage staffing levels and be from another country where I have friends and family who run businesses you know :/

Yes, but then you think it's the 220 000 who have left who seem to have ruined both the hospitality industry and the NHS.

What about the 6 and a bit millions who have stayed? It all seems very disproportionate.

Indeed.
Hospitality is paying more because they're short of staff, the reasons they are short are varied and differ between businesses as well, but one reason I know is because of the way you get treated by members of the public, and the complete over reaction to any situation where people don't get what they want, 5 minutes ago, whether it be reasonable or even possible.

I've ruined a few lives today, one because we didn't have a table available, in a busy restaurant, for an hour or so for a walk in table of 10. I was called incompetent, useless and ridiculous among other things, oh and threatened with SM reviews, their kids were hungry and they're rushing for the train so I need to get them in now and hurry the order up. I had no tables, the place was heaving and we already had walk ins having a drink waiting for a table to become available.
Another was because I wouldn't serve a 16 year old alcohol as they weren't having a meal, for that one I'm an arsehole and have no right judging someone else's parenting, no matter that it's illegal and me personally and the business stand to be punished if I do. I couldn't give a shit if you want to mainline your kids scotch quite frankly, I don't care about your parenting, I care about my job and doing it within the law to make sure i stll have one and there's a business to work in and visit.

You'd have thought with the reactions to these things I'd have done something unspeakable, that I was some sort of monster denying people the right to breathe.

People behaving like that is why some people don't want to work or stay in hospitality, nothing went wrong there, none of us made a mistake but the reactions were so completely over the top to what was actually happening.

Honestly, after a long shift dealing with this shit all day people need to get a bloody grip on themselves and grow up because I'm not the only one getting pissed off with dealing with adults having tantrums because they can't get their own way.

We've ALL had a shit few years, we're ALL facing the cost of living hikes, shouting at and abusing staff dealing with you just makes them want to do these jobs a bit less every day and other people unwilling to take on that role. And public facing staff are as entitled to vent and rant when they've been treated badly as anyone else. We're not second class citizens despite what some people might think.

There are not 6 million eu citizens here

The thread is about tourists being rude and entitled, not Brexit!

However, when I was in Denmark fairly recently they seemed to have plenty of staff working in hospitality. However, they were very short-staffed at the airport, so it seems like staff shortages are not just a UK/Brexit-related thing. I've also seen posts on German social media about shortages there.

But whether the staff are from the UK, the EEA or elsewhere is irrelevant to whether customers are rude.