To think the NHS will eventually have to be privatised ?

[Felixsmama]

When the NHS was founded 1 in 2 people died before the age of 65. It's now 1 in 8, the last 10 years of people's lives can be spent with multiple co-morbid conditions which are expensive to treat and keep under control. The NHS wasn't designed for what it's not having to do, we have an aging population. Shouldn't we start to have conversations about what going forward our health service should look like? There's multiple models not just the US one.

@antelopevalley I didn't suggest that anyone not receiving UC would be liable for the whole cost of care. I suggested that anyone with more should have to CONTRIBUTE to the cost of care, including A&E visits!

And thanks to @Kazzyhoward for pointing out that even small companies buying group insurance cover get much better rates than individuals.

Exactly @antelopevalley the US is a great example of higher premiums not leading to healthier behaviour

That's before you get to the part about how the biggest jumps in premiums are due to things out of our control, like women entering prime childbearing years (which raises your premiums even if you never have children)

If you want a healthier population then you need to actually invest in it by improving preventive care and mental health and addiction services, by reducing waiting lists, by making it easier for people to access physio and other therapies. All the money you spend on these things will be made back.

Including A and E visits! Blimey. Hard enough to get lots of older people to go to A and E when they need to. No chance with some if they have to pay for it. And all those financially abused women will just suffer or die.

Look at dentistry. It has been destroyed. In lots of places like the City I live you can not get an NHS dentist. Even for children. So more and more people have terrible teeth or even pull their own teeth out. I hear more and more people complaining about toothache, Basing care on the ability to pay just means lots of people get no care unless it is a total emergency.

And I am serious. I will withdraw all my pension money and have a marvellous time spending it. Because paying a contribution cost would quickly make us very poor. I spent yesterday morning in minor injuries with DD and the evening in A and E with DP. How much would you expect me to contribute? £100 a visit? So £200 for yesterday? Or more as that is a drop in the ocean for the cost. Or maybe I should just try to set DD's broken bone myself? I am sure there must be videos of how to do that.

The Conservatives will continue to underfund the NHS, making cuts to all areas and departments, then get their journalist mates to put out newspaper stories that the NHS is in crisis and the only answer is privatisation.
It's all part of the bigger plan. It's being sold slowly and secretly behind your backs and it will eventually be completely sold to private investors and a lot of you will have backed it and voted for it/ a party with no interest in the general public at all and then it will be too late.
It's time to wake up and realise what's going on right now.
Tell me the benefits of Brexit? The only benefit was to the Conservatives and their rich mates who can now send money offshore without the scrutiny of the EU policing it.

And this will push Scottish voters to vote for independence. Bye bye England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

I had in mind rather a token amount... say £15-20, to deter those who go into the GP for trivial purposes or use A&E as a substitute for primary care. Getting a broken bone fixed was not quite what I had in mind; that would always be considered acute/emergency.

The NHS is an old relic. No one wants to pay for it personally, they want others to and when there is even a whiff of looking at a different system some are up in arms about it talking about people who often look for money down the side of the sofa because they are so poor.

Certainly there are some like this but not all.

What about a referendum about a co payment system? The very poor wouldnt pay but why should the older people use the system and not fund it if they can afford it. Not all older retired people are poor and on pension credit!

I saw our local pharmacy which is huge have to throw away I would say 60 packets of prescriptions because they had gone beyond their sell by date. People hadnt picked them up, the system is broken but no one wants to admit it.

Deter people?
£20 would deter me going for anything except urgent stuff. Especially anything mental health related.
Basically, I would only go if I suspect cancer or similar. And that is because you see £20 as a token amount - probably the same way I see 50p.
I have had a traumatic time recently and have considered going to the GP for mental health support, I would not bother for this amount. Basically I would just wait for three months with everything to see if it got worse.

Lots of people have chronic illnesses for reasons that are not related to their behaviour! (And for that matter having an unhealthy lifestyle doesn't only relate to being fat.) Many people have chronic illnesses starting in childhood. Far more have chronic health problems because they're elderly. And far more people become elderly nowadays than in the past v- one of the main reasons why the NHS is more expensive to run than in the past. If we all got healthier, we might well increase rather than reduce the NHS burden, because even more people would live to a very old age. Obviously, I'm not proposing that we all die young to save the NHS money!!!! But let's accept that the biggest 'underlying cause' for ill-health is old age. Better social care would, of course, lead to older people needing to spend less time in hospital; but it doesn't come free either.

And, though we could do better, we are not one of the unhealthiest nations on earth. On infant mortality , we come 33rd out of 201 countries reported; on life expectancy, 35th out of 220 countries reported.

If l had to oat £15-20 to go to GP, I’d be shafted.

l have chronic illness and mental health issues. Why should l pay for being I’ll. pay more than someone who isn’t ill? How is that fair? More like health fascism.

Totally agree. Unhealthy people die in their fifties and early sixties or earlier and never make it to older age. My relative who drank far too much alcohol died in his forties. Another relative who was a chain smoker died in her sixties.

I'm actually thinking of sitting the NCLEX

I feel like Private helathcare is very different in the UK compared to a lot of places. When I first moved to UK I fel like the system encouraged me to go to my NHS surgery instead of using my insurance. Back home I hadn't used public helathcare outside of a few A&E visits. Also if eveey employer provided basic occupational health (which is required by law in a lot of EU countries) that wouldn't hike up the prices. Private hospitals would be in competition to get the companies. Then every little sniffle from someone who is employed would release tons of NHS resources and therefore the money could be aimed towards daycare and the prices for employers would be pushed down through competition. This is the system I was used to. Not saying its perfect but in my eyes UK does not have dual public/private system. Also NHS could purchase more services from private sector like dental checks. If there are problems then they can be sent to NHS instead of either being NHS or not having the availability to go there at all.

Underfunded.......

We do not have many private hospitals in the UK. The only private hospital near me does elective routine surgery such as easy hip replacements, and diagnostic tests.
My employer would cut pay for any new staff to pay for this. Do you know how much many employers are currently struggling?

People talking about fat old people. We had one old fat old person he survived covid 3 times in his 90s. We lost half the ward most needed build up drinks. I actually researched it and there's evidence being slightly overweight when you are very old is beneficial for if you get a disease or fall you are better able to recover with the increased fat stores.

More

You need to read your own link... in the UK the average nurse makes £33k... around $39k USD, now i don't know how they get those figures but the RCN backs them up....

I'm not arguing the US etc pay more but this idea UK are low paid in comparison to dev western countries is not true.

My DD is a AHP and the reason she is leaving is stress and shite working conditions i.e she works around 5 hours unpaid per week, she needed 2 hours off for GP appointment, she was forced to take 1/2 days leave... i mean wtf are these people thinking of?
It was a one off, not a succession of appt's.

29 out of 30 newly trained midwives are leaving the NHS within 5 years... over work, stress, feel unable to provide good care... these are things that need addressing before the NHS under goes structural reform.

Meanwhile the Govt argues over the price of Sunaks shoes or Truss's ear rings....

My DP took a pay cut when he left the NHS. It was the overwork that made him leave.

@Notlabeled Do you know anything about these roles? or how many there are within the NHS ?

NHS spending is over 110 billion per year, cutting a few 60k p.a jobs will not make a jot of difference.

But it gives folk a warm fuzzy feeling that the NHS wastes all its money and needs to be sold off... as if the private sector doesn't waste money or pay hi salaries for seemingly pointless jobs.

being obese is a choice, not a disability. It's insulting to disabled people to conflate the two

Being obese is a disability as it’s an eating disorder. Many medications cause over eating, particularly those for mental health. I don’t think people actively choose to be obese.

I think it will more of it will be privatised. I think many people in the UK think our only options are either free at the point of use or the American system. When they’re are lots of systems in between. I think we should take the good aspects from other countries such as the French, German, Australian systems and put together a new style of NHS. I’m not rich by any means but I have no issue paying for a+ e attendance, GP appointments, ( I think the German systems charges a few pounds for hospital stays up to 28 days - as someone who works in the hospital there are people who refuse to leave even though they are fully independent on the ward and no longer have a medical need! Ive even seen patients who don’t have a mattress to sleep on and want the NHS to provide this and refuse to leave without us doing so) . Even though this approach won’t immediately provide more doctors, nurses, physios it will likely reduce patient numbers, provide more money to the system and indirectly help with staff retention. ( plus paying directly from your pocket will likely help with the general attitude toward the nhs, im
sure the violence and aggression of patients is not seen in the private sector)

I am a nurse band 8a 30 plus years experience, I have a Master's in Advanced Practice - I work autonomously and as part of a team seeing patients, investigating and diagnosing amongst other things. Since qualifying as a nurse I have done at least one Academic course per year in my own time and often my own money to keep up to date.
The NHS is mainly comprised of lower bands - The jobs advertised by a pp that are in the higher paid bracket, to get that money the jobs are fairly stressful and demanding and they are not the main workforce.
I have worked in Australia and I was paid more as a ' band 5 equivalent' than I do in the UK as an 8a.
My DH is on far more money than I am on having completed a degree in his field in 1991 - has done one other course since- it's a standing joke in our house that when I say I will be home at 5pm they add a few hours on as I am never home on time. DH is always home on time. More fool me for going into a caring career- but I do genuinely still love my job but it's stressful and has high responsibility.

Yes more people is exactly what we need! Said no one ever.

Maybe but then you have answer where the tax payers are going to come from to pay to care for the ever growing elderly population?