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Original poster

For thinking SAHMs are making themselves financially vulnerable

655 replies

PeasOff · 24/07/2022 18:25

Would or do you depend on your partner financially?

Do you have a backup in place in case of breakup or for your retirement?

OP posts:
Topgub · 28/07/2022 17:41

@MsTSwift

I'm beginning to think people on mumsnet have a selective reading issue.

Disagreeing with someone seems to make them make up what others have said.

I've never said anyone has to adhere to my way of thinking. I've repeatedly said that's not the case.

Sneering at societal inequality and sexism is a bit embarrassing though.

Can you imagine doing the same on a thread about civil rights? Or disabled rights?

😬

Topgub · 28/07/2022 17:42

@StoneSquirrel

Is that your attempt at a put down because you can't actually come up with a counter point or better argument?

Oh dear.

howmanypets · 28/07/2022 17:46

What do you mean presumptuous? It's a question. You have been going on about equality for days. So what does equality actually look like to you? Couples who both work the same hours, share childcare and earn similar money? Is that it? The be-all-and-end-all of life?

To me, equality is about equality of opportunity. I had that. I had the same education opportunities as my husband. Education is free. It was up to me what I did with it. We're not all cut out to be high-earners. But some people are - men AND women. Do you limit a H or W - just do you can be 'equal?' Or do you, as a family unit, seize whatever opportunities are available to you in the interests of your children? How is wanting your best for your family elitist?

StoneSquirrel · 28/07/2022 17:46

I wouldn't dignify your nonsense with a counter point. You wouldn't understand it anyway.

Topgub · 28/07/2022 17:52

@StoneSquirrel

Actual lol. And you're accusing me of being like a 15 yo? That's embarrassing.

@howmanypets

Why do presume that we're just 'plodding on'? Why would you presume it would have ro be my oh making the big money? Or that being equal is limiting?

Or that you have to make lots of money to be successful?

There's more to life than work and money you know

😆

AntlerRose · 28/07/2022 17:57

howmanypets · 28/07/2022 15:41

Topgub - those articles were not remotely about SAHMs. The first was about single mums and low income families. No mention whatsoever of the proportion of low income families that have SAHMs! The second was just was just about issues of workplace flexibility in general.

Dinosauratemydaffodils - that's more relevant, thanks.

The problem on these threads is that people have so very much to say about SAHMs being financially vulnerable and the threads go on and on, but not once does anyone stop to define what they're even talking about!

If you define a SAHM as a woman taking one year out, well loads of women do this. I would imagine "one year SAHMs" are represented in all income demographics. But if you're taking about SAHMs of five, ten years or more, the circumstances relating to 'financial vulnerability' will be totally different because these are more likely to be higher net worth families (ie. don't need two incomes). Or there may be specific reasons for SAH such as a child with additional needs.

Asking "are SAHMs financially vulnerable" is a nonsense question. Just as if you asked "are WOHMs financially vulnerable?" Who, why, what, where?

For the most part, women who are SAHMs for a longer time will not be in low-income / net worth families. So even though they may have to financially adjust following a divorce, they still wouldn't be classed as 'financially vulnerable' on a national level when you take into account they many working women have few assets anyway.

So when you ask, "Are SAHMs financially vulnerable" you also need to define in relation to whom? Women in average wages? Women on minimum wage?

There are no "stats" on the demographics of SAHMs of over one year. How many are in high net worth families; how many are low net worth families; what areas are SAHMs concentrated in, etc. So it's impossible to answer the question "Are SAHMs financially vulnerable?"

"The stats" or the census show that roughly 70% of women in the U.K. are working at any one time. But how many of these are part-time or in zero hours contracts, is unclear. And of the 30% or so not working, there is no info about whether they are SAHMs, actively seeking employment or anything about their financial circumstances.

I have seen some stats for my area, that has about 8% women are 'looking after the home' compared to 0.5 % of men and this is heavily weighted to people with children under 5.

It has over 30% of women working part time and this compares to something like 4% of men.

This is why the sahm conversation frustrates me. The big thing women do differently is work part time.

StoneSquirrel · 28/07/2022 17:57

"Actual lol" FGS you are fifteen, aren't you! I think the embarrassment is all yours. 😂

MsTSwift · 28/07/2022 17:59

The mask slipped with that nasty “little Jonny” comment. Oh dear your misogyny is showing.

howmanypets · 28/07/2022 18:00

I don't mean you personally! It's a theoretical scenario I'm posing to you.

Say (for the purposes of argument) you were working and earning £30k and your DH was working similar hours to you also for £30k. I assume you would be delighted with that because you would see they as 'equality.' But then, he got a job offer somewhere else for £200k, but it sound mean him working a lot more hours and a house move to somewhere you couldn't continue do your job and he would obviously then be the higher earner (whether you worked or not). Do you go or do you stay put? Plod on for £60k or go where the opportunities are and a chance to change your children's lives?

StoneSquirrel · 28/07/2022 18:02

@MsTSwift precisely. So lame. The irony of misogyny masked by supposed feminism.

Topgub · 28/07/2022 18:03

@howmanypets

So you were asking me personal questions but you didn't mean me personally?

OK.

No.

I wouldnt give up my career or move to facilitate dhs. My kids lives don't need changing.

The money wouldn't be the deciding factor.

howmanypets · 28/07/2022 18:05

Why would you presume it would have ro be my oh making the big money? Or that being equal is limiting?

Oh dear.

If you like, pretend it's you who had the chance to earn the £200k. Same question, Do you stay and plod on with your "equal" albeit more financially-limiting lifestyle, or do you go where the opportunity is?

Topgub · 28/07/2022 18:07

@howmanypets

Why do your presume equal is limiting?

I dont get it.

I dont think dh would give up his career for the sake of mine either

howmanypets · 28/07/2022 18:22

"I wouldnt give up my career or move to facilitate dhs. My kids lives don't need changing."

Ok, well that's on you then. Your decision.

But other families refuse to limit themselves like that, if and when alternatives present. I wanted my kids to have opportunities I didn't have. Why be stuck doing the same thing all your life if you don't have to be. Not just me, that also goes for DH. It would have been madness to deny my children opportunities, just so I could say "Ohhh look, DH works 37.5 hours and do I and he does this at home and I do that and we're sooo very equal." That's not equality, it's just daft if it means you're limiting yourselves.Life isn't a GCSE textbook. I'm not so insecure that I think you have to be doing the same as a husband to be equal to him.

Topgub · 28/07/2022 18:27

@howmanypets

You keep saying I've limited myself.

Why is that? I have a successful career. Dh has a successful business.

You seem to be implying that only families with a sahm can have opportunities?

Me working is exactly why my kids have opportunities and aren't limited

howmanypets · 28/07/2022 18:38

I'm not talking about your specific circumstances as god knows what they are. But you have said on this thread that you work shifts and your DH works opposite shifts (similar hours) and you seem to be holding this up as some kind of beacon of equality that all should aspire to.

What I'm suggesting to you, is that, in some cases, that set up could be very limiting. Because if one if you had the opportunity to work more hours for more money, presumably that wouldn't be happening - because 'equality.' Or it could mean you are stuck where you are (location-wise).

When I say "you", I mean people generally for the avoidance of confusion.

Snoredoeurve · 28/07/2022 18:39

milkyaqua · 28/07/2022 12:51

SAHMs might feel exactly the same once their kids have grown up. Secure and happy and confident they made the right choice for them and their children.

Well, yes, they might, in regard to childrearing. But isn't this thread about the financially vulnerable place women can find themselves in when, for example, a spouse dumps them for a younger model, or dies abruptly...?

Of course, in MNland, everyone breezes back into a fabulous well-paying career at 45 or 55, but in reality a lot of women find themselves so far out of the loop they are unable to get back in, even at a far lower level than when they were in their twenties, or in some cases at all.

Nailed it!
As long as those in MNland are fine then the issues dont exist apparently.
They dont seem to realise that no one is referring to them personally but to women collectively and the grim statistics I posted were as usual roundly ignored.
They are fine so sod everyone else eh?!
I also have a sneaky feeling that the internalised misogyny means they actually think those women who didnt marry a rich man or have a stellar career post SAH deserve what they get.
Its not about you !
Stop shutting down important debate about the real issues women are facing -so selfish and self serving.

Topgub · 28/07/2022 18:46

@howmanypets

But you were talking about my specific circumstances.

You specifically asked me personally.

Your comments don't really make much sense.

Equality doesn't mean limiting. I'm not sure why you think it does, unless you think only men with sahm can be successful. Or that only men with sahm can make lots of money. Or that making lots of money should always be the goal.

Lots of women on this thread have said they didn't want to give up time with their children regardless of the financial implications.

Neither of us did. Because being equal parents was important.

And also because we were able to do it any way thar limited financial implications.

Not everyone can achieve that.

But it's not impossible.

howmanypets · 28/07/2022 18:56

Topgub, I don't know what to say to you really.

If the only way to achieve 'equality' is to work the same hours and earn the same as your husband (is this what you're actually arguing?) - well, obviously, this is a total non-starter.

When it works, as it does for you, great! But you must be able to understand that you are not everyone and, in many cases, your definition of 'equality' would basically amount to couples limiting each other.

Snoredoeurve · 28/07/2022 18:58

Lots of women on this thread have said they didn't want to give up time with their children regardless of the financial implications

Neither of us did. Because being equal parents was important.

This!!!!!

howmanypets · 28/07/2022 19:00

Snoredoeurve - you sound very angry. What page are your grim statistics on please?

howmanypets · 28/07/2022 19:02

So you can only be an "equal parent" if you do the same working hours and earn similar amounts?

This is mind numbing.

MrsBwced · 28/07/2022 19:02

But other families refuse to limit themselves like that, if and when alternatives present. I wanted my kids to have opportunities I didn't have.

Exactly. For us taking a different path to the one we had originally planned has meant my children are financially secure. My DC won't ever be in a position where childcare is unaffordable as it was for us when our first was born. They'll have independent wealth and all the choices that brings.

Topgub · 28/07/2022 19:05

@howmanypets

You seem a bit fixated on arguments I havent made tbh.

A pp mentioned that women going part time while men don't is also a huge part of the problem.

Its not about doing exactly the same hours for exactly the same money. No one ever said it was.

Its about realising that the financial and physical burden of childcare has to be borne by men as much as it is women or nothing will ever change.

Its obvious some don't want change. That's fine. They don't have to.

But I wanted my oh (as did he) to have equal responsibility for childcare, so we did.

Topgub · 28/07/2022 19:06

God the tone policing on this thread is pathetic