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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

For thinking SAHMs are making themselves financially vulnerable

655 replies

PeasOff · 24/07/2022 18:25

Would or do you depend on your partner financially?

Do you have a backup in place in case of breakup or for your retirement?

OP posts:
BessieFinkNottle · 27/07/2022 19:27

The problem is (as highlighted by your post) is that its viewed as a woman's problem.
Not a parents problem.
Or maybe the pp was speaking about women because the thread is about whether stay-at-home-mothers (not sahds) are financially vulnerable?

Its impossible to think being a sahm is better for your children but not that you're a better parent.
It's entirely possible to think that being a sahm is better for your own children while not thinking you're a better parent than anyone else (sahp or wp), if that's what you mean.

Festoonlights · 27/07/2022 19:56

What truly amazes me is the concept that a joint decision is made to have a child.

It is the woman’s body that is put through the physical and mental endurance of nine months of pregnancy - said woman often has to work to the last minute to maximise time with her baby. She then needs to go through the agony of childbirth - that sometimes damages and injures her body permanently. The breast feeding is gruelling and draining. Babies very offen do not sleep, the care for them is 247 - 365 days a year. When maternity is up, regardless of whether the child or infant is ready - the mother is shunted back to work full time - and now has a gruelling full time job and no sleep. No one will care how hard it is, how broken she feels, how painful it is to not be with her baby. Somehow she has to make it look like she can function, can perform - and put the hard slog in and come hell or high water that is where she will stay until she is pregnant again or the child goes to school.

Why the fuck would anyone in their right mind sign up for this? Unless you are paid millions and can afford a gold plated supported system why on earth would any woman choose this for a life?

And the think tanks wonder why the birth rate is plummeting like a stone??

HooverIsAlwaysBroken · 27/07/2022 20:11

Thank you to all the people who had kind words on my post.

To clarify, as @BessieFinkNottle said, I did mention women because a) the thread is about mothers and b) because I hate it when women put each other down. There is enough of sexism in the world. That is why I also mentioned the SAHD I know, who also made the choice to be home because they loved it and because it was the right choice for their family.

I was incredibly lucky that we managed to afford me being home with our children. I loved every minute of it. But I know some people don’t enjoy being home with small children and that is ok (DH would have hated it, my mother chose not to). Some people cannot afford it. I wish everyone could, in some other countries it is easier.

I think ultimately, if as a family you make the choice to facilitate for one person to be at home and one person to work, you also need to plan your joint financials so the person at home gets a pension. And it has to be the stay at home parent’s choice, for their own reasons to take a career break.

But I do find it sad when women put each other down. Managing children (often doing more than 50% because…sexism), getting older, menopause, etc. I think the more we stick together and offer each other advice and ideas, the better. And as a pp has pointed out, even SAHDs don’t know what we have been through. They don’t have their body changed and in pain after birth and they don’t nurse all hours. And often they seem to get an easier ride when it comes to housework because…sexism). I have always felt closer to other women than to any man, DH excluded.

TheresNoFog · 27/07/2022 20:45

@Topgub

You seem very angry at other peoples choices. I guess you are a feminist.

MsTSwift · 27/07/2022 21:28

Absolutely stone. Some people seem to have a need for sahm to end up abandoned wives begging for alms. It exposes your anti feminist agenda rather.

Blueshoes - city law (well any law) /teaching /fashion buyers /accountancy / publishing / senior project managers in international beauty company / PR / entrepreneurs / planning specialist - friends in all these sectors took large chunks of time off when children were small and bounced back to decent careers. One friend of a friend trained as a gp. Why aren’t the women on this thread pleased about this?

StoneSquirrel · 27/07/2022 21:40

@MsTSwift my experience of friends (and myself) bouncing back onto strong career paths matches yours. I think a lot of it is to do with how good you are in your field and also how much self-confidence you have that it is possible. I know other women who were just too scared to get off the treadmill and felt they had to stick with it.TBH in my experience those are the ones who are most resentful of others taking time out and still doing really well.

MsTSwift · 27/07/2022 21:57

Absolutely stone. All were good so were actively wanted by employers career break notwithstanding. Oh and the bank manager friend who left when pregnant was a sahm for 6 years then retrained on a fast track as a secondary maths teacher (there’s a shortage) and loves it.

TartanGirl1 · 27/07/2022 22:04

Anecdata versus actual data... 🤔

MsTSwift · 27/07/2022 22:14

Examine why you want life to be bleak for sahms? It’s very odd.

StoneSquirrel · 27/07/2022 22:19

@TartanGirl1 and your actual data doesn't pick up how so much depends on the individual - their professional track record and if they managed to consolidate their position before they took their break (e.g. have they made partner in accountancy or law?), their attitude, self-confidence and networking ability. Also, if their original career path is genuinely blocked, how versatile they are at repositioning themselves and leveraging their skills into another area. It is completely possible, it's just that some either can't do it or don't have the self-confidence to do it.

SleepingStandingUp · 27/07/2022 22:37

Topgub · 27/07/2022 12:50

@SleepingStandingUp

No.

I didnt.

But why would that mean it was best for you to be a sahm and not your oh to be a sahd?

Because I could take the redundancy money.
Because I'd done all the long hours in hospital during mat leave and could recite DSs medical history backwards.
Because I didn't want to travel and hour away from hospital every day to deal with peoples stupid tenancy issues when I could have been with my baby who nearly kept dying so my husband did it instead
Because I had much more the personality to survive in that environment in hospital.

A different family might have made different choices - unpaid sabbatical, DH quit, rely on family to provide care etc.

I wanted to be with my sick little boy and DH supported that

Topgub · 27/07/2022 23:51

@SleepingStandingUp

Fair enough.

@StoneSquirrel and @MsTSwift

You (in your quest to be incredibly smug) seem to be determined to miss the point.

No one wants things to be bleak for anyone. Sahm or otherwise.

Middle class women, well off, well educated, taking career breaks do not make up the majority of sahms or women.

It may be getting easier for women to return to work and that can only be a good thing (the stats say other wise but we can but hope). Even better it may mean more men are willing to do it too.

howmanypets · 28/07/2022 00:14

The stats, the stats. What stats?

Where are the stats that say middle class, educated women are not the majority of SAHMs? Link please? As far as I'm aware, there has never been a census of this.

People on here always quote "the stats" on here, but I can't find any stats whatsoever about SAHMs in the U.K. I'd be interested to hear. What would you define as a SAHM anyway - someone who SAH for one year, five years, ten? Very different scenarios.

StoneSquirrel · 28/07/2022 02:53

@Topgub I am on no quest to be 'incredibly smug'. Purely stating my experience and that of my friends. If you don't like my experience then that's your problem. You keep banging on about sharing childcare with DPs as if it's some sort of feminist empowerment. I was in full control of my decision. I had worked like crazy to get to a position to take a five-year career break to be at home with my DC and go back to my career pretty much where I'd left off. It was a privilege to be at home with my DC, I loved that time and make no apologies for it. My DP would have been happy to swap places and take the career break had I wanted that. I didn't. You seem to be making a lot of strange (and in my case inaccurate) assumptions about DPs' attitudes.

Topgub · 28/07/2022 03:57

@howmanypets

The majority of sahms are from poorer backgrounds and aren't sahm through choice

There's loads of studies backing this up

www.gov.scot/publications/annex-6-evidence-review-works/pages/7/

www.savethechildren.org.uk/news/media-centre/press-releases/870-000-stay-at-home-mums-in-england-want-to-work-but-cant-get-t

Topgub · 28/07/2022 04:07

@StoneSquirrel

I havent banged on about anything. I was asked lots of questions, I answered

I dont care either way about your experience. I dont think its hugely relevant.

Especially as we've gone from its all down to how good you are to had to work like crazy to achieve it.

I could have gone straight back to where I'd left off too. No particular effort required. No one has said its impossible.

It just never even occurred to me to want to.

MsTSwift · 28/07/2022 05:06

Well some of us want to be at home with our children when they are little. It may blow your mind but I wanted to do it! It was awesome. Loved it. And 6 years out of a 40 odd career needn’t be devastating. I’m very sorry some women are disadvantaged there are lots of reasons for that. But I need to speak out when people like you broad brush extrapolate that being a sahm is always a negative anti feminist option. For many of us it really isn’t.

Oh and nobody on this thread needs to justify their choices either - what so it’s “allowed” if your child is unwell but otherwise get back to the office?!

Topgub · 28/07/2022 05:29

@MsTSwift

It will always be anti feminist as long as its women doing it 99 to 1 man.

Its not just sahms. There are lots of other factors. But it is one factor.

It doesn't blow my mind any woman wants to do it. It's entirely predictable.

I havent said anything about allowed or not.

In fact I keep saying that my opinion is irrelevant. Folk can, and will, do what they like.

You took a break, went back to work at the same level and progressed your career.

Why on earth you've taken such offence to what I've said is anyone guess

MsTSwift · 28/07/2022 06:03

I’m not offended just countering the (rather gleeful) much touted negatives of being a sahm for a period. The very title of the thread says that! For many of us stepping out is a good thing. I think it’s an advantage for some women. There is more to life than work - as you “come out the other side” of parenting and get older and can see the bigger pictthat becomes so apparent. You have a few years with kids - that’s it.

Topgub · 28/07/2022 06:08

@MsTSwift

There is more to life than work.

Having a good balance is key.

And again with the (rather gleeful) why didn't you prioritise your kids? They're only kids for a short time!

MsTSwift · 28/07/2022 06:36

He wanted to. He genuinely wanted to. I won on that one — yes I do feel bad about that. We’re not like you though - we would both prefer child rearing (for a few years anyway) to our jobs. Live to work versus work to live.

MsTSwift · 28/07/2022 06:37

kids would have been absolutely fine in decent childcare but I wanted to do it myself.

Topgub · 28/07/2022 07:55

@MsTSwift

I meant I have a balance, I'm not sure where 'he' came from.

I don't live to work even though my career is incredibly important to me.

It wasn't a case of 'preferring child rearing to my job' or vise versa but knowing we could do both.

Balance

howmanypets · 28/07/2022 11:05

@Topgub ???? Those articles you linked have nothing to do with SAHMs.

The first article talks about single mums, mums under 25, low income households and child poverty in general. No mention of families with SAHMs.

The second article is talking about factors making it difficult for women to work flexibly. No stats on how many women are SAHMs or what proportion of these are in low income families, as opposed to SAHMs in wealthy families.

So I ask again -

Where are the stats to back up this assertion that the majority of SAHMs are in low income / low net worth families, as opposed to high income / high net worth families?

Whst do you define as a SAHM - eg.not working for 1 year, 5 years, 10 years? What?

Dinosauratemydaffodils · 28/07/2022 11:52

Where are the stats to back up this assertion that the majority of SAHMs are in low income / low net worth families, as opposed to high income / high net worth families?

I had a look in the University library last night and saw two themes. The first stated that sahms were primarily young, poor and uneducated. The second was that recently there was a trend of educated, older and financially secure mums opting out. I only skim read a few so would have to go digging for the numbers, plus a lot of the studies were 10 to 20 years old so demographics may have changed.

Anecdotally my social circle matches the second theme. Women in their mid to late 30s with the 1st child, at least one University degree, pensions etc however I don't deny the second group exists. Certainly some of the research seemed to imply group 2 is more of an issue than group 1 although I suppose from a Government perspective and a taxpayer perspective that's understandable. After all I have two degrees funded by other people and my ex boss (civil service) thinks I should be either sent a bill or made to go back to work.

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