To think DD can get top grades in an 'average' comp. secondary?

[HotCaterpillar]

Dd has done well at primary, near top of class academically and is well behaved and conscientious.

I've moved area and she's due to start secondary in an averagely performing comp. in September. Aibu to think she can get top grades in that environment if she continues to apply herself to studying?

She was offered a place in a selective private school but I declined due to the fees, I could probably just about afford them but it felt very expensive when there is a free option. She's done well in state primary. I'm a single parent working FT, we have a good home life.

@Ifyoudid no rich kids aren’t cleverer than poor ones but they have educational advantages. Usually why it’s the better off middle class kids in comps getting the grades rather than the equally bright but disadvantaged poorer kids. Hard to do homework if you live in overcrowded housing, you can only get the school transport in and out so can’t study later or earlier, you have to work at weekends to buy your stuff et etc..
Selective state schools do better than private. Of course grades will be lower when there’s zero choice over who you are teaching.

The biggest barrier to success in a (decent) comp is the bright students not realising who they are competing against. Which is the rest of the world.
Work ethic comes from home and parents not school. It isn't about grades it is about aspiration.
Oxbridge/imperial/Med School.
They need to plan from early on.
Get a Maths tutor if the school isn't setting for Maths

This is complete rubbish. Lots of children do well in state schools as you can see if you look at published results.

Parental support is the biggest predictor of good exam results. You can always get a private tutor for exams if need be.

Which of the legs do you think is missing in a state school? The teachers are likely to be just as good or better. The intelligence is unchanged. The hard work is the bit that may fail, depending on peer group, parenting and the child herself.
To be honest a highly intelligent child can get top grades as GCSE without doing too much work. It's A level where it gets more challenging.
I suspect the studies to which you refer don't exist but if they do, a private tutor for a couple of hours a week will be far cheaper than a private school

Such a tiny minority of the population go to a private school as a country we would be stuffed it was only them succeeding!

Perfectly possible. My son got 9x9’s and is predicted 3 A*’s (result next month, he thinks he has achieved that) in an ordinary comp. He didn’t get into a grammar school. But he put it 100% and some effort, he worked so hard for that. So I’d say it depends on how she applies herself and if she changes etc.

I suspect the studies to which you refer don't exist but if they do, a private tutor for a couple of hours a week will be far cheaper than a private school

Especially when you factor in that many parents of private school children also end up getting a tutor anyway.

My daughters comp did class reading time first thing every morning until recently. They have now switched to morning maths every day.

At the recent prep for y11 meeting they were very keen to point out that it is important for the children to turn up for this and that if people were paying for GCSE tutoring for that extra time it would be nearly £100 a week!

My DD went to a good state secondary.

Her entire 5 years there were an absolute shitshow on a personal level, encompassing divorce, issues with her father, body image issues, friendship issues, dgp on end of life care/dying halfway through exams, and of course the bloody pandemic!

She got 7/8/9 in 9 out of 10 of her GCSEs (less for French as she opted for the lower paper).

On target for AAA in A-levels and hopefully Russell Group uni to study law next year. Tutors have urged her to apply to Oxbridge but she wants to be London based.

There is absolutely no reason your daughter can't do well at an average state school of she puts her mind to it and has your support.

This sounds admirable. Is the session taught? By maths teachers? Great though it is , it can’t have the same effect as an
hour of one to one tuition, I think.

I've taught for over 25 years and have worked in comps and private schools. I'd very much agree that a child has a much better chance of getting top grades in a private school. Obviously some students in comps get top grades, but imo they have to have a level of motivation and determination to do it, which would be less necessary in a good private school (not necessarily in a mediocre or crap one though!).

I have a very bright dd currein year 12. I would have sent her privately if we cpuld have afforded it. Her GCSE grades were good, but I have no doubt she could have got all 8s and 9s.

I think you should look at the results for this particular comp. You can see if any children are getting top grades there and that gives you an idea whether they are teaching some to that level and what sort of proprtion. You want a class worth of pupils with higher grades. I also think the progress 8 is a goods.

DD got 4x A* for A Levels in a bog standard comp. She is now studying a STEM subject at a top Uni. She is bright and motivated. She had very good relationships with the teachers and grabbed every opportunity that came her way, Also, she reads endlessly.

My three children have all attended the local comp. DS1 is at Cambridge, DS2 is in sixth form and applying to conservatoires, DD1 is in year 8 and expected or above expected for everything and on track for good GCSEs. All three work but not as much as they could and all have good social skills and outside interests. Absolutely the sky is the limit.

@Pottedpalm

Yes I believe it is taught by maths teachers. I don't think they were trying to say it could replace tutoring it was more trying to make the point that they were putting on all this extra stuff for them at no cost so take advantage of it. They have also put an extra period on the timetable 2 days a week meaning they won't finish until 4. Plus about 50 hours of work for the summer holidays

I feel like they are supporting them ready for the exams.

@HotCaterpillar she will get good grades by paying attention in class and broadening her knowledge (including reading widely) outside the classroom.

However, don’t under estimate the impact of mental health. I went to a state school and got straight As. I was an over achiever and put too much stress on myself during my A Levels. I burnt out. I was depressed and anxious. My mental health plummeted and so did my grades. Predicted AAA but ended up with ABC. My Mh a improved at Uni and I got a first class degree with hons.

Drs both graduated from Russell group unis this summer with top marks. Both went to an average comp. Didn't work excessively hard, did plenty of other extra curricular stuff but completed the work they were asked to. a

Also, some in their primary school who maybe weren't considered bright also went to similar comps and got good grades by putting the effort in. Teachers want their pupils to succeed contrary to mumsnet wisdom, they do value the hard working kuds.

And I've never used tutors or even taught them myself beyond reading with them and doing their spellings with them at Primary.

Agree with discovereads and also about power of friend group.

If you definitely don't want to send her private then accepting you maybe paying for tutors is a great idea.

Tutors are wonderful because they get to know your DC and tailor bespoke to them.
Probably better than private school and cheaper!

Mine never had tutors either at their below average comp. It's often claimed on MN that all state schoolers have tutors. Really not true ime. And of course private pupils also get extra tuition in some circumstances!
MN is a funny place, very economically skewed. Reading it you'd think closer to 50 per cent of children went private rather than the oft-stated 7 per cent.

Tutors are a brilliant addition to any learning and I hope the dreadul uk stigma goes away over tutors.

Most DC wouldn't need them all the time just as and when they struggle with something and our school system can't go over it

Yes she can. Especially if she's in top sets where behaviour doesn't tend to be an issue to learning. She'll probably need to do a bit of extra studying to get 8s and 9s and anything you can do to widen her cultural capital etc (eg take her to the theatre) will help.

I thought this with dd. I mean she did ok but it was grades5-7. With most been 6. This was a kid who is bright and passed her 11plus

she got 2 for both English mocks. Probably due to a constant stream of changing supply teachers. So I got her a tutor and she got 7s in those two (her only 7s). Seems like nobody had told them how to answer the exam questions and once the tutor spent time explaining that she was fine.

so no she probably won’t do as well as she could but is likely to do ok.

Private schools are all selective (even if just on parents' income) so will automatically have better results

RedSky - why would schools which select just on parents’ income automatically have better results?

Many, many studies on the links between parental income and educational attainment. (feel free to google)

There's also the softer link that actually, in most cases, you don't just get into a private school by filling in a form and sending a cheque. There's a certain amount of navigating of the "system" needed (see very many threads on MN from people who hope to get their children into private school who have no experience of the sector) which requires research and a certain number of hoops to be jumped through. This implicitly selects parents who are more involved and interested, which also in itself means their children will have had better educational outcomes, regardless of school attended.