About strange myths that permeate MN about other countries and cultures

[Wetsummers]

Does anyone else know what I mean - in particular about ‘Africa.’ I’m not claiming to be an expert on African culture or social norms but I’m pretty sure the ‘African tribes’ often referred to on here are a myth.

See also the insistence that we start children at school too early. Pretty sure most 4/5 year olds are in some form of education / kindergarten or whatever.

And you can’t open a thread on sleep without someone confidently stating the Japanese all co sleep.

MN search is really poor now but look at this thread.

It is from fourteen years ago, but it’s still a thing.

My point is that talking about ‘African tribes’ and the parenting they do as if you have a PHD on the subject is nonsense.

For one thing, not all Africans live in tribes

For another, is anyone actually an expert on these tribes?

Can you link to one of these threads which mention African tribes?
I don't remember seeing one.

Sorry cross posted

The same in Denmark. You start school the year you turn 6. Anything before is considered childcare settings and not compulsory.

According to MN, All children in 'Europe' are very well behaved and eat anything they're given. The UK is the only place with noisy or rude children. We're also the only place in Europe where convenience food is eaten; in other places it is presumably only in their supermarkets for decoration. People know all this is true because they saw it that time they went to France on holiday.

The 'African tribe' thing is usually on threads where people are trying to shame women who use childcare (or sometimes where they're trying to shame parents who sleep train). They go on about how in 'African tribes' no one would dream of being separated from their babies, they breastfeed until 7, etc etc etc. Sometimes to amuse myself I ask which tribe they mean - perhaps they mean the Beng of Cote D'Ivoire, where babies are left with different teenage babysitters while their mothers work and where one of the most highly prized traits in a baby, considered a sign of good mothering, is a baby who is happy to be cared for by anyone?

I have never seen any comments about African tribes so hard to comment.

You may be right about most 4/5 year olds being in some form of education.

It is a fact that co-sleeping is the norm in Japan, so I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make there - it isn't a myth.

This. I've seen lots of posts where people claim "there's not enough money in the world to pay me to live there" etc.

I do agree that health care is an issue, and the recent abortion ruling is extremely depressing, and would give me pause for thought. But the reality is that if you have OK employment there are vast swathes of the US that offer a fabulous quality of life - far, far higher than anywhere in the UK.

That Halloween and Santa were invented by America.Also that surnames as first names is another American tradition.Always amazes me that people can't comprehend that different parts of the UK have different traditions/accents/ quirks that should be celebrated.

It’s actually a huge difference whether you start school at 4, 5, 6 or 7, when you’re that little. I started school aged 6 and for the first year I only had two or three hours of school each day. So I might go in at 8am and be back home at 11am. Plenty of time to run wild in the Black Forest. My daughters had to be in uniform and attend school from 9-3 when they were 4 and while of course they coped, it made me sad how different their childhood was.

So, not a myth.

I learnt on Mumsnet that it's very common for certain parts of the UK to use the term 'mom' and not 'mum'. Always assumed it was mainly an American thing.

There are very few mentions of African tribes and none of them say African tribes are the experts at parenting.
So not really backing up your point.

Yes it's usually on breastfeeding and attachment parenting threads that you see people going on about how 'African tribes' do X, Y or Z, but clearly with no actual knowledge of anything. It's just something they read on a mummy blog somewhere.

'In Africa they do X' as if Africa is just one monolithic country and culture

School isn't compulsory in England at any age. Just 'education'.

I'm not saying the English system is perfect, but you are perfectly free not to send them to 6or 7 if you don't want to.

(Not referencing the other UK education systems here as I'm not 100% on home education for them)

Please give a link to one of those threads.

I think the original mentions about African tribes came from a book (I think it was called Attachment Parenting). I read it during my first pregnancy and it describes parenting used by various tribes and cultures - it does say which ones though. I imagine that people who have had the info passed along online have never heard the precise descriptions and so just say tribes. Here it is, if the link works:

https://www.wob.com/en-gb/books/william-sears/attachment-parenting-book/9780316778091?gclid=Cj0KCQjwuO6WBhDLARIsAIdeyDIwS9jfvqxfzBbaIezhvx2JnbNcXmzYSev3JdF7bNqTEenn5CoWUUaAuTdEALwwcB#GOR001786335

French women happily crack on guzzling wine and scoffing Brie through pregnancy.

Lol I'm not your research assistant

Is there some reason you think we're lying?
I've been here more than a decade, have seen it any number of times. I know because it gives me the rage every time.

You don’t need to refer to African or any other tribes in the debate about parenting styles. You just have to realise that humans are mammals and particularly carry mammals who have the most immature and dependent infants of all mammals. In contrast, cache or nest mammal can leave their babies for hours on end while they hunt - dogs, cats, foxes etc. All primates including human babies thrive on loads of touch and interaction and carry their babies around with them constantly. Some human babies are fine without that but many, many aren’t, which is part of the reason why having a human baby is really hard.

I was on a thread recently where posters were advocating that the OPs annoying neighbours should move to the remote Highlands to avoid having to deal with the noise of children and nosy neighbours. There are thousands of children in the Highlands and they are much noisier than city children because they've never had to learn to be quiet for near neighbours, there's quite a few folk who moved to our wee remote village and complained like billy-oh about the kids. As for nosiness, nothing beats the Cailleachs (old Highland ladies) for gossip and we know about everyone for 50 or 60 miles around 🤣

Well maybe that’s true in theory but in practice of course the expectation is that your child starts school at 4, and people who keep their kids at home longer or start them part time are very much the exception. You can surely see how that’s different to a society where absolutely everyone starts school two years later.

Australian kids don't start school until they are 5 - they must be 5 by June of the year that they begin ( the school year starts in Feb so there are some kids who are still 4 , but not by much .) So no, not all kids are in school by 4.

And from my travels, I'm always amused by the idea that people from other countries think that all Aussies live near the beach and go surfing every day after work - hmm not quite !

That Japanese women as a collective 'sail through' the menopause. I'm not sure that a country where women aren't allowed to speak in the ruling party's meetings is a role model for free and frank discussion of women's health.

@dreamingbohemian

*Lol I'm not your research assistant

Is there some reason you think we're lying?
I've been here more than a decade, have seen it any number of times. I know because it gives me the rage every time.*

Oh the classic of the course they exist but you have to find them.

I have been here for over 10 years and don't remember seeing one. I am not saying you are lying just that I would be interested in seeing one and thought someone who talks about them would probably be able to help me find one.

Zero is a number by the way.

We've got a surname that is never spelt properly in England, where we live, but always spelt correctly first time in Scotland.

Exactly.