Port of Dover Critical Incident

[AndreaC74]

Why are we blaming the french? they didn't vote for Brexit and aren't responsible for increasing/paying for extra capacity at the French border posts on UK soil.

Stamping passports is what happens to 3rd country nationals & that adds time, a lot of it, when dealing with 100s of '000s of passengers, plus having recently been to France, i ve seen UK people arguing with French officials because they don't want their passports stamped!

The UK seems incapable of organising anything at the moment, the numbers travelling across the channel is entirely predictable and delays we are now seeing were talked about pre 2016, i remember seeing the graphs on how long the queues would be for just a few seconds of delay for each passenger.... all Project Fear.

The blame brexit crowd don't let facts get in the way of their agenda.

It's clearly a French issue, the only connection with Brexit is the continued anger directed at this country from the EU. It's imperative for the EU that Britain is made to suffer, and as publicly as possible, otherwise other countries will realise that they are better off out of the bloc than in.

Fortunately we have a way to avoid this - do not travel through EU territories for non-essential purposes. Dover and other ports to Europe should be restricted to freight traffic only, individuals should not be travelling to France, Spain or Ireland - there is literally no need.

We need to make Brexit work, despite the efforts to sabotage it from within and without. There's a whole world out there, instead of going on holiday to EU countries, stop being racist and try visiting somewhere further afield like Africa or Asia.

It's ironic that Remainers always claim Brexit-voters are racist, when in actual fact it's those who wanted closer ties with Europe at the expense of the rest of the world who are the real racists.

But you're talking like they've only just discovered how long it takes to get people through. They knew this and the French and Dover authorities had arrangements in place to cope with the numbers. And then the French didn't show up
But this is a regular occurrenc from the French over disruptions at the start of the summer holidays. You can set your watch by French Air Control summer strikes.

@Carpy88999 But we haven't supplied them with extra have we?

if i remember correctly, Dover is pretty jam packed, where would extra lanes and booths go?

@CockadoodleDoosPoohy brother was there this morning, at 6am all but one of the French booths were open.

@Shade17 has a good point though. We bring £££££'s into France every year via tourism. Money speaks; surely you'd want to make it as easy as possible for tourists and their families to spend money in your country?

It's not like the authorities couldn't see this coming. First weekend of the summer holidays, large volumes of traffic, extra admin caused by Brexit. Perhaps the French authorities just don't care, and TBH who can blame them? But similarly, we are not in a position to start pissing and whining about their nonchalance. It's not their monkey, not their circus.

And that's the nub - all those 'upsides' that we were mooted, time and time again - but have never actually materialised. Plus, there's this: "Brexit divorce bill jumps by £10 billion". www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-divorce-bill-increase-b2128542.html

Just slipping out another £10 BILLION ahead of the summer recess.... if that's not directly screwing the British public then what is?

Have people on this thread ever been to another EU border from a non-EU country?

Its very typical for non-EU nationals to be queuing for hours and hours to pass through the Bosnia / Croatia border, whereas EU citizens are just waived on through in minutes.

Manning the border to 3rd Party Arrivals is costly. We are a nation who have sought to slim down our overheads so why would we expect anyone else to do differently?

There is little trade incentive in making it easy to trade with the UK now we are outside the EU.Tourists who really want to go on holiday and avoid the British wet and cold, are going to keep coming. And will pay through the nose for it as its part of our lifestyle expectations. Numbers might shrink over the coming years, but its unlikely to kill off tourism at a time when people are desparate for their first post-covid holiday abroad.

I don't get what is in it for the French to put more border control on, if they don't want to. Its a UK political decision to make life difficult for ourselves.

The incoming fee for non-citizens to enter the UK which is being proposed won't help matters (£18) and will only be mirrored in the EU, thus adding £80 to a family holiday. On top of the inevitable rises to travel...

We've do well to get used to holidays in Cornwall. Oh wait, there's going to be a crack down on second homes too.

Don't worry, if all else fails theres a tent in the back garden. And if you don't have a back garden maybe there is a new industry to be had for those who do have a back garden and wish to make a couple of hundred extra for a week...

DontchajustlovetheBrexitdenialism?

So you know more about the months of planning and arrangements that the French committed to and then broke than Doug Bannister the head of the port of Dover?

I went to Paris via Eurostar a few days ago. Whilst well organised at both Gare du Nord and at St Pancras, passport checks took longer, probably instead of each person at passport control being able to look at say three people in two minutes, it was two. That adds up.

The other thing I'd note is that the rush to go on holiday in the first week or two of six adds to demand, and if only there was some spreading out of school holidays, some of the impact would be less.

@AndreaC74 I don't think you read the article or really understand what you're saying, because you're fixated on making this about brexit.

The article flags under resourcing by the French. It's a regular issue at Dover. In 2016 there was a terror related cause, but there's always one reason or other.

The other thing you get wrong is arguing that the UK should build the infrastructure because we voted for Brexit. Actually, given they are French controls (juxtaposed) the French authorities are required to provide them, and the necessary infrastructure and resources. There's clearly a gap in their provision.

They've got to allow for a shift changes though @orbitalcrisis One booth isn't just one person

There's plenty of other nationalities who spend quite a lot in France on tourism too including the French themselves. I doubt losing the few Brits irritated enough to swear off ever holidaying in France again will make much of a dent.

The title if the thread makes it seem as if they’re has been a terrible accident at the port.

Its not racist to avoid many parts of Africa for personal security reasons...

I am struggling to understand we are trying to encourage longer flights given issues over global warming too...

But still. Definitely racist to want to visit Berlin, because its Berlin...

But it's their choice whether they want British tourists or not. If they decide they can't be arsed that's their perogative. They don't owe us a holiday. That's the beauty of being able to control your orders isn't it.

individuals should not be travelling to France, Spain or Ireland - there is literally no need.
This is the most stupid, limited comment I have ever seen on Mumsnet and my God it's had competition. You really can't imagine that an individual living in the UK might need to go to an EU country??
Brexiters are now trying to dictate where we're allowed to travel to, having taken freedom of movement?!
And the usual tired utter shite of 'we need to make Brexit work' - well go on then - give us a few ideas. How are we going to get rid of the red tape? How are we going to make up for the lost trade with a few paltry deals that undermine our farmers? How are we going to repair the terrible damage that's been done to the university sector, to the entertainment industry, to the fishing industry, to small businesses? Any thoughts? Or is it easier just to blame people for not thinking positively enough and carping at anybody who dares to point out what an utterly fucking stupid idea it was for anyone not wealthy enough to benefit from tax havens.

I don't get what is in it for the French to put more border control on, if they don't want to.

Then they shouldn't have agreed to do so. No one forced them to.
If your neighbours agree to feed your cat while you're away, then the morning after you've gone, they change their mind and don't bother going, is that reasonable? Would you not be bothered and just say you didn't get why they ever offered anyway?

Then they shouldn't have agreed to do so. No one forced them to

So does that same line of thinking extend to Johnson’s oven ready deal that he signed, you know the one that’s so good and yet at the same time needs completely re writing? Or do a special English set of rules apply there?🤔

@Unhomme err its infrastructure on UK soil but you think the French should be paying & building it? riiiight.

In fact the Port of Dover did put in some extra capacity a few days ago and "hoped" the french would staff them.... but Bannister did acknowledge that there is a shortage of French border officials.

I ve suggested its down to brexit because it is, that article from 2016 is about delays caused by a terrorist attack.... clearly a one off, as was a huge delay i was caught up in a few years ago at Calais, due to the migrant crisis.

Extra checks on passports are here to stay... unless the UK generates the political goodwill to ask for changes.

Perhaps Truss, as a Remainer will do so?

Great idea!

To clarify the passport stamp issue. The people saying their passports shouldn't be stamped will in general be EU residents who hold British passports, and they are correct.
Otherwise when they re-enter the UK it will look as if they overstayed the Schengen 90 days rule whereas in fact they were legally and correctly in their country of residence.
Showing proof of residency alongside the passport should mean that the border official knows not to stamp but not always in practice. Also, some coutries for instance Portugal have a huge backlog of residency cards so those residents still have temporary papers - again all perfectly legal but border officials of other counties won't necessarily be au fait.

We have traveled twice to France this year. Queues noticeably longer than before brexit. Also we have to stop for the extra checks for our dog which costs £180 EACH time we travel, before Brexit it was free.

French border officials were very helpful with the extra pet paperwork, I do hope they’re not being shouted at today.

Why would people not want their passports stamped? I love looking at all the stamps in my passport from countries I’d been to

there are British people who are still living in Europe who haven't regularised their living arrangements, i think. You can only stay a max of 180 days per year in EU countries with no visa, and only for 90 days at a time with a gap of 90 days. If you live in, say, Spain without a residence permit, a stamp in your passport will cause issues. Not that i care about those people, but it does cause hold ups.

When DH recently came through French customs he had to show an EU ID card or residence permit to stop them stamping his British passport (it's routine, but they don't ask so if you don't know it could cause issues.)

I thought freedom of movement applied to the Schengen area

FoM refers to the right to live and work in any EU country without having to do it as a foreigner, you can do it on the same terms as a citizen of that country. This has been reiterated since the start of the Brexit campaign, but people's complete lack of understanding of what it actually is never ever fails to amaze me.
The Schengen area applies to border controls, the outside perimeter (if you will) of the Schengen area - eg between Britain and France - has controls. But inner Schengen-Country borders - eg between France and Germany - don't. So once you're in, you can travel around all other Schengen countries without showing your passport.

Frankly, Brexit, holidays and Covid is a perfect storm at pinch-points like this. I feel bad for people caught up in it, but it's a fact of life now, i think.

This you, @jgw1? 😂