Summer holidays - outdated

[Wednesdayafternoon]

So I was just scrolling through Facebook and I saw some pictures after school club/breakfast club to my sons school put up and it just got me thinking how crazy it is that schools just completely shut down for like 6-7 weeks.
They have all these facilities during term time to support working families because there is obviously a need to for it, but in the holidays... ahh f*ck it!
Obviously o know there's summer schemes but at a massive expense and also different hours and locations.
My sons school isn't offering one so he's attending some random school for 3 days over the summer mainly just so he's socialising!
I'm extremely lucky as my mum is a great help to me during the holidays. And obviously I'm very much looking forward to spending more time with my boys and no school run... hurry!!!
But I just find it crazy that schools close for such a significant period of time.
Obviously I know school isn't childcare but it school itself enables parents to work so it kind of is 🤷🏼‍♀️

My point really is, how can schools so strictly enforce attendance and breakfast and after school club

It’s the government who bang on about attendance, that has not come from schools.

Breakfast and after school club is entirely optional-my school don’t run an after school club at all.

But there should be something

Yes, Summer clubs and flexible working for parents. Neither of those are anything to do with schools.

The governments would never pay teachers more to account for them officially working (as many work unpaid) over the holidays.

Whenever I see a poorly disguised teacher bashing thread, I wonder if the posters realise how much of their internal misogyny they are revealing.

For a start, schools are overwhelmingly staffed by women. The vast majority of teachers retained over five years stay in it because of the benefits of making it work around holiday times. The price paid is you spend less of your time on your own children during term time, but the holidays become locked in family time and make it financially workable.
Teaching is not well paid for the qualifications it demands and the time it takes. The few male teachers I know gravitated towards teaching due to wanting to be in a caring profession and using the holidays to enjoy time as a family unit. Take away the holidays and all those well qualified men will be enticed into STEM or other high paying professions.
Teachers are child development experts and wee know that the summer holidays with proper enrichment are vital to development. By saying children should be in school completing more academic activities, as schools are not set up for greater enrichment, you are saying that you do not value teachers skills knowledge or dedication to your child.

Simple solution op. Become a ta. I give you a year max, entitlement like that doesn't cut it in education

Yes! And in Malta it's 12-14 weeks and the school day is a lot shorter 😳 I have no idea how working parents do it there.

In Spain it's quite the norm for children to attend summer Casals which run 9-5.30. They're not cheap though - up to €250 per week though that does include lunch and snacks.

My son is only 2 at the moment but I dread him starting school with all the holidays. My husband and I both work full time would really struggle to cover all the time off and random inset days. Not everyone has a parent at home all the time or working part time, we can't afford to pay the bills on 1 wage. Also no family nearby.

Just a warning on the staggered holidays you might end up like my friend in another country one DC off for a 2 week Easter hol then her sibling off for 2 weeks. Friend with 4 week Easter to cover! I've had a 3 week October half term before now (me and DD overlapping by one week in the middle).

There are absolutely loads of vacancies in teaching though so anyone who seriously wants the 6 or 8 weeks off in the summer could have them if they really wanted them (at the price of never having a school term day off ever, of course).

Sorry for random crossing out.

Would rather clean toilets tbh. Seems like a stressful thankless job. Certainly not 9-3!

Kids and their parents need the break. Leave our holidays alone

What about the parents who have to work?

@Wednesdayafternoon you don't get only 3 weeks holiday a year if you're in the UK. That's just not true, and if it is true then what your employer is doing is illegal.

All workers are entitled to 5.6 weeks paid holiday a year. Your actual number of days might be pro rata if your part time, but it would still be the same number of weeks.

As for the Summer holidays. It is very tough for working parents, but I don't think the answer is necessarily to snatch the much needed break from children and teachers. Btw teachers will probably spend some of their holidays doing. unpaid work.

The answer is surely better holiday club provision, better holiday entitlement for workers, more flexibility from employers for mums AND dads.

Why does it always have to be a race to the bottom in this country?

Also (I'm not a teacher btw), but if teaching is so amazing why don't all the moaners go and train to become teachers. Then you can all have the easy life that teachers have.

It’s a pity this thread has brought out a teacher vs parent vibe when it really doesn’t need to. Working parents asking for a more modern alignment of school holidays with working practices is not a dig at teachers. I don’t know where the defensiveness stems from - no one is suggesting your 6 weeks holidays will suddenly be snatched away, but we MUST be able to discuss and be creative about possible solutions. I know my kids’ amazing teachers are all about encouraging creative and critical thinking so why can’t we do that as adults without it immediately degrading into people making snide comments about how working parents should just go out and get jobs as teachers. #Nodebate. It’s a trite response and lacks thought and nuance. Perhaps we can all push together for working practices to change but surely flexibility all around is key and if every discussion on this topic immediately descends into teachers panicking about losing the six week break and resenting parents asking the questions then we will get nowhere.

Incidentally I caught the end of a segment on BBC Radio 4 this morning where the overly long summer break was being discussed.

This again!?!

Can we not have a grown up mature discussion?

It's not overly long, though, is it, if it's one of the shortest in the world?

More help for parents would definitely be a good idea. Shortening the school holidays is not the answer.

Perhaps modern working practices are damaging to childhood and family life.

Children as young as 4 already spend 30 hours a week in school 39 weeks of the year (soon to be increased). Many children will have been in formal childcare since as young as 3 months old.

Lots of children are not only doing their 30 hours in school, but will be having 7.30am starts in breakfast club and 6pm finishes in after school club.

But there should be something. My point really is, how can schools so strictly enforce attendance and breakfast and after school clubs etc for all the different reasons they explain and then just nothing!

Sorry but that's a daft question. They enforce attendance because they are forced to and are judged on itby Ofsted. They provide breakfast and after school clubs because parents want them, not because it's educationally necessary for kids.

I don't understand this demand that 'there should be something'. Is it that you mean there should be something you don't have to pay for? Do you really think the government is going to pay all the teachers in the country to work those extra weeks?

And yes, the education system is haemorrhaging teachers already. If you actually want your children to be taught by qualified professionals, taking away the long summer holiday is a disastrous idea. Unless of course you really do think the point of school is just childcare and are happy for any unqualified person to be in charge of your child's education day-in day-out.

I'm very well aware of the amount of holidays I have and I'm not complaining about it or winging. I don't need to state my hours or allowance on her because to be frank it's absolutely none of your business and not relevant to my post.
You don't know my job or my hours or literally anything but if I feel the need to share any of this or have any questions about my holidays I'll get back to you ☺️

A lot of professions outside of teaching work outside of working hours. It's not a competition. It's just a fact. I feel for anyone who has to do this, not just teachers not just others.

Op you claimed that you only get 3 weeks holiday. People have simply pointed out that this isn't true or else it would be illegal and now you're being rude and defensive for no reason.

No one asked you about your holiday entitlement, you volunteered that information and when people rightly pointed out that it wasn't true you've gone on the attack.

Also (I'm not a teacher btw), but if teaching is so amazing why don't all the moaners go and train to become teachers. Then you can all have the easy life that teachers have.

This again!?!

Can we not have a grown up mature discussion?

What's immature about it? It's just another way of phrasing the important question of why teachers are quitting teaching in their droves and why it's so hard to recruit qualified teachers, if the job is supposedly such an attractive proposition.

Working parents (in some other jobs) potentially do have more agency or flexibility than teachers, to start late/finish early or arrange their hours to accommodate school events. or take a morning of AL here for an assembly, an afternoon there for sports day....and then have even more of a shortfall to cover the school holidays, so it's tricky all round for any working parents.

And yet you also dig at teachers.

I think calling for nuance when the majority of the posts are teacher bashing ones is rather entitled, but perfectly in keeping with the sentiments expressed. Teachers have to compromise (and children) but not parents right?

Solutions have been suggested. Teachers and others have pointed out that child development wise, more school isn't good for children who need enrichment and a breadth of experience.
It's also been pointed out that school sites are in use/not adequate/being maintained .
The obvious solution is part or fully funded carefully tailored opt in and out enrichment centres. Which present their own problems of how to find staff willing to work seasonally but qualified enough for good quality childcare and safeguarding, money and space for buildings, money to fund it.

Or working hours become more family friendly which is perfectly possible in this day and age and would have many other benefits.

It's not teachers job to sort all your problems.

Lots of children are not only doing their 30 hours in school, but will be having 7.30am starts in breakfast club and 6pm finishes in after school club.

Yes we have plenty of reception children who do this 5 days a week, and still some people expect schools to provide more.

School is not childcare. School is there as a means to educate children. I pay for wrap around care for my child when I'm working which is 700 pounds a month. We just accept that that's what we're going to have to pay til she's in secondary. Unless you have family helping, you just need to pay for childcare. Children badly need the break in the summer. In Ireland secondary finishes at the beginning of June and we go back at the end of August.