Summer holidays - outdated

[Wednesdayafternoon]

So I was just scrolling through Facebook and I saw some pictures after school club/breakfast club to my sons school put up and it just got me thinking how crazy it is that schools just completely shut down for like 6-7 weeks.
They have all these facilities during term time to support working families because there is obviously a need to for it, but in the holidays... ahh f*ck it!
Obviously o know there's summer schemes but at a massive expense and also different hours and locations.
My sons school isn't offering one so he's attending some random school for 3 days over the summer mainly just so he's socialising!
I'm extremely lucky as my mum is a great help to me during the holidays. And obviously I'm very much looking forward to spending more time with my boys and no school run... hurry!!!
But I just find it crazy that schools close for such a significant period of time.
Obviously I know school isn't childcare but it school itself enables parents to work so it kind of is 🤷🏼‍♀️

Can’t bare this smug attitude. Comparing to many other “professionals” who’s got all the benefits and perks, including WFH and astronomic salaries, teachers earn NOTHING to cover for the stress they experience every day. I’m not even talking about the support staff, who’s wages are laughable. So please take this attitude somewhere else and do something, if summer holidays bother you so much. You can offer your time as a volunteer for all the potential summer clubs you are describing and contribute your own time… to make a real change, you know. Maybe you can volunteer for the actual school to see what’s it like.

My DS would love to have a go at stepping in for the PM-great idea. He doesn’t go to many important meetings, has loads of parties and is now on holiday till September!

imagine the whole country being squeezed into a shorter summer holiday and then fighting over a limited amount of holidays and accommodation to fit everybody -and the prices would increase due to the ridiculous demand people would take their children during term time.

Yep-this is exactly what would happen. Meanwhile private schools (and most other countries’ schools) would continue to have a couple of months off in the summer-enjoying the cheaper prices!

I have heard the argument about school holiday for decades. Some people want it longer, some people want it shorter, some people want more in the spring (for skiing and holidays in certain places), others want more in the Autumn. A minority of people want less because they have an obsession with teachers having such an easy ride and think teacher holidays should be cut down to 6 weeks. There is no one glaring option though that everyone wants so no obvious alternative. I also can’t see any government forcing state schools to reduce their summer holidays whilst keeping private schools the length they are.

There is no political will to increase the schools staff pay for the extra weeks (as already stated, they aren’t even funding the proposed pay rise) and the school buildings are often falling down and need chunks of time when they are not in use so they can safely be maintained.

More available, flexible and affordable childcare and flexible working sound like a sensible and achievable aim-but the childcare shouldn’t be in schools-they need time for site staff to sort maintenance and repair. I certainly don’t want my children having less time off over the summer.

I personally think it’s a crying shame that most of the Sure Start centres were closed, that would have been an ideal place to start for holding summer clubs. It might have been a good source of summer work for students who wanted it as well.

With the chronic shortage of labour at the moment perhaps this sort of system could be re-introduced, but not just for harvesting, there's seems to be shortages everywhere, e.g. restaurants, airport staff (flight controllers should be restricted to the over 11s) doctors (see flight controllers) police, Prime Minister etc

🤣
I'm just seeing my DS (12) as work & pensions minister, we'd all be playing xbox until the country is bankrupt!
While DD (18) as finace minister would make the most cutting taxes and setting up offshore accounts for her hard earned cash- while living off mum & dad!

It really wouldn't be feasible to open school buildings for childcare in the holidays. Our site is out of bounds to all staff on and off over the summer as there is so much maintenance work going on, it would be unsafe even for adults to be in the building, let alone kids running around. We have to book days that we want to go in with the site manager.

It also isn't really feasible to shorten the holiday. Climate change is already making the last few weeks of term utterly unbearable in schools. Children are ill, have nosebleeds, are listless and exhausted and do not learn anything. We are already just babysitting them for the last few weeks of term even though we are told to and try to teach up to the very last lesson. This issue with the weather is only going to get worse.

The govt is definitely not going to pay any more to open schools for longer. They are not even funding the proposed teacher pay increase, meaning it would have to come out of existing budgets, if schools do agree to pay it to staff. What else can be cut in school? Zero budget for books instead of a tiny amount? Heating off at 10am in winter instead of 12 noon (probably necessary anyway this winter because of fuel price hikes. Genuinely, be prepared for there to be no heating in schools this winter. Our school saw an £80,000 hike in fuel costs last Spring, with no help to pay for it)?

What we do need is better and cheaper childcare options in the summer, with longer hours (the 10-3 dance/archery/football/sailing camps only seem to benefit children whose parents are not at work that week, anyway).

If school summer holidays were four weeks long, how many working parents wouldn’t be able to get any time off at all during that period? Holiday prices would be through the roof, so increasing numbers of children would have no proper holiday at all.

This. A shortened holiday would mean all the parents in a workplace clamouring for the same few weeks off, and some would inevitably have to miss out. The issue isn't the length of hols but the lack of affordable childcare in the UK and so few play schemes. In the States kids can go to camp for a few weeks yet we just don't have anything like that here.

Teachers are contracted and paid to work 190 days a year - they won't do more. Yes it fits more with the old days when mums would often be at home when children were young so an adult there for them. Most people work a full year with just 4 or 5 weeks holiday so naturally it doesn't fit with the 190 day working year. Perhaps the contract should change to pay another 10 days and the holiday shorter?

I have lots of teachers in my family and they love the big holiday and most go away for the summer. It's a great career option with good benefits, sickness, pension and of course holiday, if you can perhaps look into it.

If school holidays were to change. You would need to
Pay staff more - staff are not paid for six week holidays
Accept that teachers would want to either book time off like other staff do or be paid more to reflect fact that their holidays always will be more expensive than others.
Put air con into schools so that the lessons are productive. Kids cannot work effectively in the heat.

Rather than a shorter summer all at the same time, the summer could be staggered so some LA's off from mid July and gradually stagger to avoid all off at the same 4 weeks. Scotland and public schools appear to be able to manage this.

This has moved on since I was last here. But I just wanted to make the point again that reducing maintained school/ academy school holidays is the unfair way to do this.

Private schools are not going to change their holidays. So all you’ll do is widen the gap between wealthy children who get to have long carefree holidays full of fun and state school kids who get four weeks in which to cram everything in (including I suspect holidays so pricey that no one can afford them).

The actual solution is better entitlements for working parents, tackle the cost of living so that people can survive on one or part time wages and the creation on national play schemes for holidays.

I grew up in the states and loved my long holidays. My parents worked so I spent a lot of time a drama camps/ gymnastics camps/ tennis schemes. I loved them. They are totally different to school and really bring out talents that kids didn’t know they had. But they should be subsidised.

If holidays are shorter then I’ll have to quit teaching and find any way I can (beg, borrow, steal- scholarship) to get my DC into private. I don’t want her to be disadvantaged because the working culture in the U.K. is so backwards.

I loved the long break as a child and my children love it too. Also I like not having to rush about in the mornings!

Climate change is already making the last few weeks of term utterly unbearable in schools

Yes the past few years have had incredibly hot temperatures in june/july while kids are still at school. Yet August often has quite rubbish weather, grey, damp, chilly. I think school holidays should be taken earlier...say half of June and all of July and kids go back to school in August.

Some children with special needs struggle greatly during the school holidays due to lack of routine and access to appropriate activities and social opportunities. Ds will see no one but us for the 6 weeks which isn't good for a 16 year old and is likely to result in challenging behaviour.
Social care do provide some activities but nothing for those with the most complex needs or who cannot cope with random events, staff and random other children. Mainstream activities like swimming became impossible years ago.

This is a social care issue rather than a childcare or education one but it is the reason why some parents of children with special needs dread the school holidays.

It's so difficult, isn't it?

My son has ASD and 100% needed the school holidays to decompress after struggling and trying to mask, fit in and comply all the way through term time without exploding.

Longer school terms would be great for some children with additional needs and a horror for others.

I think I'm not necessarily thinking that schools should completely ditch the summer break. Like I've said a few times I'm looking forward to spending extra time with them. I'll make it as special as I can. I loved the holidays when I was younger too, although I do remember feeling at about week 5 it was abit long. I missed my friends that I hadn't met up with.

But there should be something. My point really is, how can schools so strictly enforce attendance and breakfast and after school clubs etc for all the different reasons they explain and then just nothing!

I just think it's leaving a lot of vulnerable children, and families who are having to struggle affording childcare or saying no to extra work etc etc in an even more vulnerable position.

6 weeks is such a long time for families to struggle and I think really schools should have a more modern approach tk this. If they don't I just don't think their values of looking after children and families Are that valid.

Just my opinion. I know all won't agree. But you'll see a theme of those disagreeing is the parents that can stay at home or the majority (not all) of teachers.

What modern approach do you suggest?

Just not possible, though, for all.the reasons above. Site maintenance I would argue, being the most pertinent.

You know to look to other facilities and options.

Also, why do you keep mentioning compulsory breakfast and after school clubs? I've never known them be anything other than optional childcare, not mandatory.

The children need a break, they need time to be in their own homes and gardens. Children's lives are so busy these days, they often leave home at 7 in the morning and don't return until 7 at night. A 12 hour day where they don't get time to just sit. Weekends are taken up with activities their parents think their children need. Think back to your own childhoods where you had time and space to play. Let your children have some sort of childhood and some quality time with you and not in a childcare/education setting.

This is a social care issue rather than a childcare or education one but it is the reason why some parents of children with special needs dread the school holidays.

Yes... as with the problems caused by the disconnect between the NHS and social services, especially for older people, here there's a disconnect between the education system and its facilities and the social needs of children. It's not 'schools' as such which should be responsible, though they could/should be part of the solution.

But there should be something. My point really is, how can schools so strictly enforce attendance and breakfast and after school clubs etc for all the different reasons they explain and then just nothing!

But you're still not taking on board/ignoring the fact that the bulk of maintenance of school sites has to take place during the holidays, so it wouldn't be safe to run holiday clubs while there are workmen milling around. I'm not even talking about major building work either – windows need cleaning, floors need re-polishing, walls need repainting etc. When we walk past our DC's old primary during the holidays the playground is turned into a car park for service vehicles. It wouldn't then be appropriate to let holiday clubs run there, especially as the workmen are unlikely to be DBS checked. And before you say they have six weeks in which to do the work, doesn't the caretaker deserve some time off? If they spread it across the six weeks, he'd still have to be there every day to supervise.

As a mum I'd rather struggle through as I think the extended break is essential for my child.

But there should be something. My point really is, how can schools so strictly enforce attendance and breakfast and after school clubs etc for all the different reasons they explain and then just nothing!

Breakfast / afterschool clubs are optional

You keep saying school should do more / change their approach, but what do you actually want them to do? and who is going to pay for it?

More fool you. If you get 15 days of leave a year, then your employer is taking you for an utter mug. You need to build some self esteem and get a new job.

If they don't I just don't think their values of looking after children and families Are that valid.

It's the job of schools to educate our children, not raise them.

"My son has ASD and 100% needed the school holidays to decompress after struggling and trying to mask, fit in and comply all the way through term time without exploding."

My son attends special school so everything is geared up for him and he feels comfortable there. Out in the community there is nothing for him. He doesn't 'belong'. His learning disability means he cannot entertain himself. I agree that longer school terms are not the answer because I know for some children school is not a happy place or they need the breaks out of it.

I have a great idea. You should all retrain to be teachers. Then you won’t have childcare issues. It’s such a great, easy job with loads of holiday. There’s already a huge amount of very experienced teachers leaving in their droves because it’s such a great, well paid job with loads of holidays. Also, you only have to work 9-3 in term time to. I honestly don’t know why more people don’t do it.