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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

School buildings are not fit for purpose

177 replies

noblegiraffe · 16/07/2022 10:49

It seems to have come as a surprise to some this week that the vast majority of classrooms are not air conditioned and that teaching and learning are hugely reduced during the last weeks of term due to unacceptable temperatures and ventilation levels in classrooms (before you even factor in the heatwave of next week). The DfE's advice for schools during the heat is not about how to enable effective education to continue, but how to monitor children for signs of heat exhaustion and heat stroke, and what to do if a child succumbs. educationhub.blog.gov.uk/2022/07/14/advice-for-schools-and-other-education-settings-during-a-heatwave/

Don't think they're any better in winter though, freezing classrooms saw kids in coats and hats struggling to learn with windows open for covid while the heating was turned off due to cost. inews.co.uk/news/education/schools-keep-classroom-windows-open-snowing-outside-lack-air-purifiers-1393032 (this will get worse as energy bills have shot up. My school usually turns the heating off at midday in the winter, I can imagine this will be cut even shorter.)

The government have also rejected calls for sprinklers in schools, so they are not safe in the event of a fire schoolsweek.co.uk/dfe-snubs-calls-for-sprinklers-in-all-new-schools/

The DfE also think that Grenfell-style cladding is suitable for schools www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9636127/Grenfell-insulation-70-schools.html

The repair bill to bring schools up to a satisfactory safety standard is £11.4 billion, according to the DfE. www.theguardian.com/education/2021/may/27/repair-bill-for-schools-in-england-doubles-to-over-11bn-finds-survey

Schools are also riddled with asbestos that isn't being managed safely. The response is that asbestos inspections will start in September www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/schools-face-asbestos-inspections

Given that these buildings are where we send our children to for a large part of their childhood, this is outrageous. Shouldn't we have safe buildings where education can actually take place?

Unsafe and unfit for purpose. Our kids deserve better.

OP posts:
CallmeAngelina · 16/07/2022 11:12

"Thread after thread after thread about teaching and how awful she finds it."

No, I think you're reading her wrong. I would say she likes teaching but has an issue with the way our/your kids are being let down by the government's mishandling of all things to do with education.

Teateaandmoretea · 16/07/2022 11:14

Indeed, it’s not just the fault of the Tories. Labour seem more worried about whether women can have penises than the future of the country and holding the government to account on education.

Hearts2507 · 16/07/2022 11:14

Money needs to be spent on recruiting, training and retaining teachers (and support staff) first. That's the real crisis. There are lots of problems that teachers face day to day and the building is probably bottom of the list! There's no point having a nice new air-conditioned classroom without a teacher to fill it.

MrsHamlet · 16/07/2022 11:15

Thread after thread after thread about teaching and how awful she finds it.

I've never read a thread where she said teaching was awful. What she does do is very clearly point out that the system is falling apart.

Very many people have no idea what's actually happening in schools even though they have children in them.

CallmeAngelina · 16/07/2022 11:16

rushrushflat · 16/07/2022 11:06

So next month when it's raining and cold and a school spends x amount on air con you will all be complaining on wasting money?

Well, I'll be first in line to complain about the Co2 monitors (eventually) provided to our classrooms. They regularly hit red alert level before 9.30 each morning and no one could tell us what the protocol was for that. One colleague was told to unplug hers.
WHY don't the powers-that-be ask US, and also the students, how best to address the issues in classrooms? You know, the people who are actually living the reality?

Theimpossiblegirl · 16/07/2022 11:16

I love NG"s threads. They are clear, accurate and informative. Some people just don't like knowing the reality of schools right now.

Spending more is definitely at the heart of the solution, just not on CEO salaries. It's about time our children's futures (and therefore the UK's) were at the forefront of political discourse.

Keep it up NG.

HipTightOnions · 16/07/2022 11:16

I have never once seen noblegiraffe complain about teaching. Like most of us who are sticking it out, It appears she enjoys it.

The circumstances under which teaching is expected to take place, yes, but that's a different matter.

CoffeeWithCheese · 16/07/2022 11:18

Shouldn't have gone for the faddish nice massive PFI glass box buildings that look amazing on architect's plans and are shite to work in. Lot to be said for solid cool inside Victorian buildings like my kids' school sometimes.

And I'm with Hester on the constant threads whining about life as a teacher
🌻🌺🌸🐝(bee added for pollination)

noblegiraffe · 16/07/2022 11:21

The whole concept of “deserve” is a bit childish. We don’t base funding for anything on “deserve”, but on what can be afforded and what the priorities are.

And children shouldn’t be a priority. Got you.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 16/07/2022 11:22

And I'm with Hester on the constant threads whining about life as a teacher

Telling parents what conditions are like for their kids.

You’d think they’d want to know.

OP posts:
CoffeeWithCheese · 16/07/2022 11:24

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

borntobequiet · 16/07/2022 11:25

But there will be others who will struggle to work with the whole premise when no ready solutions are offered either other than “spend more”.

It’s very hard to see how any of these problems could be addressed without spending more. A magic lamp and three wishes maybe?

eatingapie · 16/07/2022 11:25

I think the DfE are really dropping the ball on new build schools - my last school was a new build, less than 5 years old. It wasn’t big enough so they’re now having to bid to extend it - it’s a brand new multi- million pound building and the DfE didn’t allocate enough space for the expected number of pupils. How does this happen? The library was so hot they couldn’t use it in the last couple of weeks of term. What the government COULD do is change whatever metric they use to work out how big a school should be and stop giving school building contracts to private companies who don’t seem to understand the needs of a school building.

Smartiepants79 · 16/07/2022 11:25

Soubriquet · 16/07/2022 11:02

This is only picture I can find really. As you can see, it’s one big square corridor type

That style of set up was very popular at one point (maybe the 70’s/80’s) as it supported a specific type of teaching that was in fashion at the time. Free flow, open plan etc…
I agree that some schools need a lot of work and some schools have been very badly designed. Quite a lot of schools are manageable if not perfect.
As a teacher I’d rather spend money on staff and resources than air con.

bigfootisreal · 16/07/2022 11:27

HesterShaw1 · 16/07/2022 11:00

Sure but what do you want us to DO? Apart from not vote Tory (most of us don't anyway)

Well there have been ample opportunities when people have pushed for better funding within schools, these campaigns are not new. So maybe don't ignore them and get behind the campaigns might be a starting point.

RaleighDurham · 16/07/2022 11:29

A serious lack of comprehension skills is showing on this thread.
Surely the fact that any of us are still teaching, rather than jumping ship, is testament to our commitment to it? Resigning and finding another career is the easy option.
Why are those of us who have stayed to see it through and teach this current generation of children being vilified for trying to raise awareness in getting things changed for the better?

basilmint · 16/07/2022 11:30

Wasn't one of the first a ts of the coalition government back in 2010 to cancel Labour's Building Schools for the Future programme? And since then not a jot of funding has been allocated to improving school buildings. I can't even be given the money for a fan in my KS1 classroom because of "budget" so I have to buy my own.

HesterShaw1 · 16/07/2022 11:31

CallmeAngelina · 16/07/2022 11:12

"Thread after thread after thread about teaching and how awful she finds it."

No, I think you're reading her wrong. I would say she likes teaching but has an issue with the way our/your kids are being let down by the government's mishandling of all things to do with education.

Ok yes I phrased it wrong. I meant "teaching" as in the profession rather than the specific bit of teaching the children

But the profession bit overshadows the other if you hate everything about that part. And it seeps over into your actual teaching of the children, and your attitude towards them.

That's why I got out of the profession and moved on.

Yes it means a recruitment crisis. But teachers only have one life, the same as the rest of us. If they hate their profession, why continue?

RaleighDurham · 16/07/2022 11:31

The only ventilation in my classroom is the fan that I take in from home. I got a telling off about it because it hadn't been PAT-tested.

HesterShaw1 · 16/07/2022 11:33

RaleighDurham · 16/07/2022 11:29

A serious lack of comprehension skills is showing on this thread.
Surely the fact that any of us are still teaching, rather than jumping ship, is testament to our commitment to it? Resigning and finding another career is the easy option.
Why are those of us who have stayed to see it through and teach this current generation of children being vilified for trying to raise awareness in getting things changed for the better?

NG is preaching to the converted. The people who read her threads already know what a shit state education is in.

That's why I suggested politics.

toomuchlaundry · 16/07/2022 11:33

Some people obviously can’t read or have poor comprehension skills, the OP doesn’t complain about teaching, she highlights the issues in schools, the lies peddled by the Government and media, and the problems caused by lack of funding.

Many parents have no idea of the state of education in this country. Teachers always try and hide the issues when talking to parents and I am sure the OP does the same.

With the problem with teacher recruitment people should be listening not telling her to get another job.

Our local Secondary is having to drop a number of subjects due to lack of staff

MrsHamlet · 16/07/2022 11:34

eatingapie · 16/07/2022 11:25

I think the DfE are really dropping the ball on new build schools - my last school was a new build, less than 5 years old. It wasn’t big enough so they’re now having to bid to extend it - it’s a brand new multi- million pound building and the DfE didn’t allocate enough space for the expected number of pupils. How does this happen? The library was so hot they couldn’t use it in the last couple of weeks of term. What the government COULD do is change whatever metric they use to work out how big a school should be and stop giving school building contracts to private companies who don’t seem to understand the needs of a school building.

Absolutely this.
Our greenhouse new build created 3 new classrooms which are far too small. We have an office which is entirely impractical and - best of all - the hoist in the accessible toilet doesn't actually reach the toilet.
The corridors are nice and wide though ... which is handy since we actually have some lessons timetabled in them.
The company went bankrupt so none of the remedial work was done.

Whitesapphire · 16/07/2022 11:34

Why don’t you just get on with your job like the rest of us have to?

MrsHamlet · 16/07/2022 11:35

Whitesapphire · 16/07/2022 11:34

Why don’t you just get on with your job like the rest of us have to?

Which bit of the OP suggests she isn't doing just that??

toomuchlaundry · 16/07/2022 11:35

@Whitesapphire where does it say the OP isn’t doing her job?