School buildings are not fit for purpose

[noblegiraffe]

It seems to have come as a surprise to some this week that the vast majority of classrooms are not air conditioned and that teaching and learning are hugely reduced during the last weeks of term due to unacceptable temperatures and ventilation levels in classrooms (before you even factor in the heatwave of next week). The DfE's advice for schools during the heat is not about how to enable effective education to continue, but how to monitor children for signs of heat exhaustion and heat stroke, and what to do if a child succumbs. educationhub.blog.gov.uk/2022/07/14/advice-for-schools-and-other-education-settings-during-a-heatwave/

Don't think they're any better in winter though, freezing classrooms saw kids in coats and hats struggling to learn with windows open for covid while the heating was turned off due to cost. inews.co.uk/news/education/schools-keep-classroom-windows-open-snowing-outside-lack-air-purifiers-1393032 (this will get worse as energy bills have shot up. My school usually turns the heating off at midday in the winter, I can imagine this will be cut even shorter.)

The government have also rejected calls for sprinklers in schools, so they are not safe in the event of a fire schoolsweek.co.uk/dfe-snubs-calls-for-sprinklers-in-all-new-schools/

The DfE also think that Grenfell-style cladding is suitable for schools www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9636127/Grenfell-insulation-70-schools.html

The repair bill to bring schools up to a satisfactory safety standard is £11.4 billion, according to the DfE. www.theguardian.com/education/2021/may/27/repair-bill-for-schools-in-england-doubles-to-over-11bn-finds-survey

Schools are also riddled with asbestos that isn't being managed safely. The response is that asbestos inspections will start in September www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/schools-face-asbestos-inspections

Given that these buildings are where we send our children to for a large part of their childhood, this is outrageous. Shouldn't we have safe buildings where education can actually take place?

Unsafe and unfit for purpose. Our kids deserve better.

There's a poster saying they have a new build where there's an alarm to bring kids in when it's windy because bits of the roof are getting blown off. But you're still going on about a/c. The fact is a/c is never going to be standard across all the school in the uk. And if you think that school buildings will never be good enough til you have a/c, then you're facing long years of complaining.

I don't think this is a new problem though - school buildings were no better in the 70s or 80s, in fact probably worse.

The real problem at the moment is teacher recruitment and retention, which is more linked to pay and conditions than air con.

But you're still going on about a/c.

I was asking the poster about air con because they said that their school was built in 2013 because you were saying that the poorly designed schools with no air con were a Labour PFI thing.

Hence my interest in whether a new build under the Conservative government has air con or not.

And if you think that school buildings will never be good enough til you have a/c, then you're facing long years of complaining.

I already said that on this thread that if air con wasn't going to be a thing then rejigging the school term dates would work.

Working conditions are part of conditions. I don't think teachers having to wear coat and hats to teach in the winter, and wilting in the heat in summer is a good recruitment strategy. It suggests that staff are not valued.

It also suggests that children aren't valued, and neither is their education.

Agreed. This isn’t an issue that just crops up every few years in extreme heat. Every academic year we keep coats and layers on throughout most of winter and are sweltering in summer. Our school has one new block for STEM with air conditioned classrooms and all others have nothing. As an English teacher teaching in the smallest rooms in the school next week and 30 weeks pregnant, I will be marching around with my fan all day. I’m dreading it as I’m sure many kids are too. They should be able to feel safe and comfortable at school, whatever the time of year!

No air con for us!

We have air con in the upstairs KS2 classrooms of our medium sized primary. It is an absolute Godsend and has been in daily use for weeks. Even on a 20 degree day in Yorkshire, a full classroom is unbearably hot.

Really?

All I have ever inferred from Nobles many posts is that she cares greatly about the education of the children and them getting the best standard of education to prepare them for the future.

You can love your job and be amazing at your job whilst still wanting more for those you teach!

I honestly think women in their first and third trimesters should not be at any workplace unless it can guarantee their safety and that of their unborn child.

It's ridiculous to believe our schools would willingly put our children at risk. It's simply not true.

The govt told clinically extremely vulnerable kids that they should got to school during a pandemic or risk a fine.

"It's ridiculous to believe our schools would willingly put our children at risk. It's simply not true."

What's not true? That my school sent out that very message on Friday? And that classrooms will NOT be cool at all; in fact, they are likely to be several degrees hotter than outside?

@LetsPlayShadowlands

Schools aren't making the decisions. As always they will have to put a positive spin on things for the children's sake.

Do we should install air conditioning for literally 2 weeks of the year? There is finite money, if there's more money for education it should be used for extra teachers and resources not retrofitting schools with air con.

Obviously when schools are build new it should be built in as an integrated heat/cool system

And please remember many kids are better off in school because their apartments will be baking hot and their parents not there because if they don't work they can't eat

One of our local schools was rebuilt and has an integrated ventilation system as part of new building management system in the new building. The system was so complicated that for the first year it was costing thousands in the school holidays even with very little running as no-one knew how to use it. Also it is meant to be super efficient (when working correctly!) and therefore cost saving. Unfortunately, the cost of maintaining the system is so expensive it costs more than the old system. So school have resorted to opening and closing windows again.

It is like many things, Government (and it doesn’t matter which party) are so inefficient with the way they spend their money, not spending for ages and then throwing a huge amount at a problem but without actually speaking to the people that matter, so the money is wasted on buildings etc that are still not fit for purpose. And in the storms earlier this year it was the newer school buildings that suffered the most damage

It would be nice if it were just a few days where air con or other heat mitigations like working blinds or shades are needed in classrooms. Try more like May to end of September.

The advice from the DfE to lower the blinds so that kids aren't sat in direct sunlight but to not block open windows with blinds because ventilation is needed makes me roll my eyes. Both things cannot happen. More bullshit from the DfE who don't know the reality of schools.

Op you're right the schools today are shit. Conditions for teachers are shit. Honestly anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot. Prove it's good, I see no evidence to support that argument. Schools here have holes in the roof, asbestos, they are too small, outbuildings are used, and the teachers are mostly supply these days.

Prove the good points.

There is currently a new school being built in my town to cope with the growing population, so this isn't a London only thing. Another (2000's built) school is being extended presumably to accommodate children from the massive new estate that is being built (I'm guessing the builders are partly funding this)

Asbestos is not an issue unless it is disturbed and seeing that asbestos containing materials were used until the year 2000 there are a lot of buildings (including houses) that are brimming with it. So hand wringing about schools and asbestos is a pointless exercise.

I work in a glass a/c office and it isn't all it is cracked up to be especially as there are no opening window, and the moaning from staff who are too hot or too cold (at the same time) is off the scale. The building manager has the patience of a saint. My only saving grace is that where I sit gets the sun first thing so will have moved round before it gets too hot.

Anyway I spent three of my seven primary school years in a pre-fab hut so things are looking better.

I am more concerned that posters are saying heating the buildings in winter is going to be unaffordable then it being too hot for a couple of days.

Our school is a gorgeous new build. Warm in winter and cool in the summer.

The staff room is huge. Classrooms are a beautiful size.

We have a newish secondary school (2013) nearby and several new primary schools being built around.

Im in Cornwall

We also have a (disused) school desperate for demolition as it’s full of asbestos. But planning has been granted to knock it down and build a brand new community centre to be shared with the local school.

Allotments and cycle tracks within primary school grounds have recently been built too!!

Not sure new primary schools are the priority given that there will be a surplus of primary places and they'll have to start closing them down within a couple of years.

schoolsweek.co.uk/councils-cut-primary-school-places-as-baby-boom-flattens/

The looming crisis in secondary school places is a concern though, and I expect that covid did not help with any planned building work.

inews.co.uk/news/education/councils-warn-of-emergency-shortage-of-secondary-school-places-192225

Still, I'm sure the govt have a fully thought through plan to deal with this and it'll all be fine. The DfE are very competent.

Well thankfully Covid didn’t slow down the construction industry too much and major projects were given extra hours to catch up on site.

I am dreading the next few days. I have a fan that I have bought, I have an air purifier that I have bought. The temps are going to be high and we have cases of covid going round so as we are all going to be stuck in the classroom cases are going to rise.