School buildings are not fit for purpose

[noblegiraffe]

It seems to have come as a surprise to some this week that the vast majority of classrooms are not air conditioned and that teaching and learning are hugely reduced during the last weeks of term due to unacceptable temperatures and ventilation levels in classrooms (before you even factor in the heatwave of next week). The DfE's advice for schools during the heat is not about how to enable effective education to continue, but how to monitor children for signs of heat exhaustion and heat stroke, and what to do if a child succumbs. educationhub.blog.gov.uk/2022/07/14/advice-for-schools-and-other-education-settings-during-a-heatwave/

Don't think they're any better in winter though, freezing classrooms saw kids in coats and hats struggling to learn with windows open for covid while the heating was turned off due to cost. inews.co.uk/news/education/schools-keep-classroom-windows-open-snowing-outside-lack-air-purifiers-1393032 (this will get worse as energy bills have shot up. My school usually turns the heating off at midday in the winter, I can imagine this will be cut even shorter.)

The government have also rejected calls for sprinklers in schools, so they are not safe in the event of a fire schoolsweek.co.uk/dfe-snubs-calls-for-sprinklers-in-all-new-schools/

The DfE also think that Grenfell-style cladding is suitable for schools www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9636127/Grenfell-insulation-70-schools.html

The repair bill to bring schools up to a satisfactory safety standard is £11.4 billion, according to the DfE. www.theguardian.com/education/2021/may/27/repair-bill-for-schools-in-england-doubles-to-over-11bn-finds-survey

Schools are also riddled with asbestos that isn't being managed safely. The response is that asbestos inspections will start in September www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/schools-face-asbestos-inspections

Given that these buildings are where we send our children to for a large part of their childhood, this is outrageous. Shouldn't we have safe buildings where education can actually take place?

Unsafe and unfit for purpose. Our kids deserve better.

I am now in a school which has an extension on an old Victorian school building- this is less than 3 years old. The new bit has air con which has been great the last couple of weeks however it’s very badly insulated so we’re reliant on having the air conditioning on all the time for heating or cooling, which is very inefficient for such a new building. The old part of the school is absolutely ridiculously hot in warm weather - next week the new bit will be fine but the old but will be noticeably warmer then the outside temperature (it’s gorgeous but basically a greenhouse) so potentially over 40 degrees. When I lived in a hot country they would have sent us home from work if it was that hot with no air conditioning. This is why I think the rights/wrongs of schools closing next week depends entirely on the school building- in my school half the classes will be ok, half will be not OK. This makes it a difficult call.

Either way the build quality on the new bit is bad. It’s publicly funded so you’d hope it would be designed to last and be functional but 🤷🏻‍♀️

@Soubriquet

I used to teach there!

We could start pressure groups. But the government wouldn't meet us. They have repeatedly refused to meet eg Long Covid Kids. Only U4T get heard . And that's not a good thing.

Kemi Badenoch clearly wants to cut school funding. None of the other candidates have even spoken about children.

If I could volunteer and be on the architectural team for sorting out this problem - I would in a heartbeat.

It bothers me so much.

I have never voted Conservative but there is not a magic money tree to address every problem facing the country immediately. What do we throw money at first?schools? The NHS? Social care? Many local hospitals are old and not fit for purpose, and yes many schools are also in huge need of improvement.Lobby your MP ,make him ask questions in parliament and fight for new amenities for his constituency, but realistically there isn’t the finance to do it all, and if we have a recession it will be even worse.

re air con in schools, it would be lovely but for the very few days we have excessive heat in this country it isn’t cost effective. Every time we have snow people go on about more gritters etc. For local authorities to spend £millions on machinery which might only be used for a few days each year would not make sense.... what would we cut to pay for it?

small world!!

Its a lovely school but it’s so complicated to get round some times

But the profession bit overshadows the other if you hate everything about that part. And it seeps over into your actual teaching of the children, and your attitude towards them.

You’re suggesting that because I post on MN about the state of schools, I’m becoming a worse teacher and it’s affecting the kids I teach?

New low for you….

I think that you can lay the blame on most of that with labour and their creation of the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005, which saw the poorly implemented and monitored Fire Risk Assessment.

What an odd comment? Are you suggesting Noble isn’t doing her job properly?

There's a small but vociferous group of people in this forum who have an unhinged and irrational hatred of teachers. They think nothing of lying to make what they consider valid points but can't seem to see how easy it is to see right through them.

The now deleted thread was evidence of that and I hope HQ made a note of the names of the loons involved.

Noble has done sterling work since the beginning of Covid to show people what it is really like in schools and I'm very grateful to her for that.

Some parents don't seem to care, that's very sad.

Absolutely agree.

But you will also struggle to recruit and retain teachers if the working conditions are shit.

Here’s my recent thread about teacher shortages www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4573302-fears-grow-over-shortage-of-qualified-teachers?

Thank you for sharing NG. I think your threads are very informative. I really wish education was a higher priority in this country. I'm a primary teacher and my DS will be starting reception next year and the state of our education system really worries me. We are seriously considering sending him to an independent school (DH earns considerably more than me) as I'm really worried about the underfunding and strange approach to education of the Tories.

The building I work in at my school is either freezing or sauna like. The beating is either on fully blaring or off and there is no in between. The windows open slightly but the blinds (that are shit and appear to increase the heat from the sun) have to be down otherwise it’s too bright sun in kids eyes and you can’t see the board because of the glare. We cannot do anything about this at all.

Last week when it was really hot on Monday afternoon I let my kids take their ties off and basically sit there pretending to work as it was so so hot it was that feeling you can’t quite breathe properly heat. And it was only mid to late twenties outside.

My classroom, which I’ve taught in for many years, had asbestos stickers put all around it about three years ago. I’d be merrily pinning and stapling to walls prior to that.

Rooms get painted every so often. It’s the easiest way to pretend the rooms aren’t completely falling apart.

We need windows that open and opportunities for through ventilation. We need those white/cream blinds that are designed to keep in/out the heat as appropriate. We need heating systems that can be adjusted to the temp require in the room (eg when crammed with 30 teenagers and when empty).

I know people are saying about recruitment of teachers being more important but I think teachers being respected, working conditions being improved/made more reasonable would go some way to perhaps helping with this. I suspect this is the same in other jobs - NHS in particular springs to mind.

Luckily in real life I know no-one who talks about teachers in such an appalling manner as has been allowed to stand on MN over the last few years. I always find it interesting how there is such a shortage of teachers yet according to MN it’s such a doss job for lazy people and we’re paid plenty 🤷‍♀️

A LOT of schools are in relatively new buildings - many built during the 'Building schools for the future' initiative on which Labour spent vast amounts in the 2000s.

I was a secondary headteacher then. I was required to attend a lot of meetings and special days at which we were asked how we would like our 'new' school to be designed. Many of us raised the issues of 'too cold in winter, too hot in summer' and spoke about effective, green energy solutions and the need for air conditioning, etc.

What most of us got was one of a small number of designs which had been pre-approved. Vast plate glass windows are often a feature of these, creating a greenhouse in summer and a cold room in winter.

Governments always go for the cheapest and easiest solution and are never, ever interested in sustainability.

Thanks for highlighting this @noblegiraffe I’m sorry you have to put up with this nonsense every time you post. The personal attacks must get very wearing.

I do agree with this, but working conditions is one of the many reasons I am thinking of leaving the career after 11 years.

I am currently 32 weeks pregnant. When the outdoor temp was 24-25 this week, my room was 30 degrees. This is normal, it’s always approx 4-5 degrees hotter that the actual temperature.

Most of my classes are 36 pupils and on Tuesday I have a full day with no free periods to allow my room to breath without 37 bodies in there. I am dreading it as I’ve felt Dizzy enough from it this week. The kids are so different too, it’s horrible for them! My family and friends are telling me not to go in but I just can’t disrupt the pupils learning after all the disruption over the past few years but it would be nice if someone would even acknowledge the fact that I have a risk assessment and try to put some kind of mitigating factors in, even if it was just someone to relieve me for 10 mins, so I could go into an office (which are air conned…) just to cool my temp!

I work in an old block, that’s had lots of work to retain heat over winter, but nothing to keep it cooler (windows open 1-2 inches for example). However, the new blocks are just as bad…they have climate control that works brilliantly in winter and somehow makes it hotter in summer! It’s madness!

The astronomical amount they have to spend on pastoral care due to shit parents or ones that don’t give a fuck
would go a long way to improving things if the people who were supposed to parent and take responsibility for there kids did

I’ve never worked anywhere with aircon and having a room full of IT equipment increases the temperature enormously. There are few extremes of temperature in this country so buildings aren’t set up for it. With regards to schools it does seem that some small improvements could be made such as shutters and paying a caretaker to arrive early and air the building.
I can see why schools turned heating off when all windows were open during covid, I wouldn’t have mine on if the heat was going straight out the open window either.
why have so many schools got rid of summer uniform? I had a school dress, no blazer etc, it’s ridiculous what kids are meant to wear in the heat.

32 weeks pregnant! Call in sick. That's not safe.

Sure but what do you want us to DO?

Give a shit? Ask your MP for solutions? Stop voting Tory? Stop,pretending that the state of education in this country is OK? Get angry that the 7% of kids whose parents can afford to pay for an education are getting more and more for their money whilst the other 93% are getting less and less? Recognise that the future of this country is held in the hands of all young people (not just 7% of them) and demand that they are given a world class education? Stand with teachers who are trying to tell parents what is really going on in schools rather than make passive aggressive remarks about their choice of career? Stop pretending the fact that some kids have had 15 maths/chemistry/physics/MFL teachers in the last 9 months is somehow a reflection on them and not the state of our education system? Have a look at the stats for the number of people signed up to ITT next year in shortage subjects (very grim reading) and demand answers from your MP? Join your PTA or governing body and make some money for the school so essentials are not being covered by teachers themselves?

Nottinghamshire schools were often the clasp type buildings built in the seventies. (built of prefab panels, small quiet room off a main classroom and classrooms open plan to shared area so have other classes trooping past or through your classroom.) One I taught in leaked so badly that the small teaching room was unusable due to the fungus spores /mould in the carpet. It was so damp furniture grew bracket fungus over the weekend. When it rained one curtain had to be closed to stop water hitting the windowsill and splashing the children at one table. Water came under the door and the carpet got wet a third or half of the way across the classroom.

This was the worst classroom in the school as it was only used when there were too many reception children in the summer term. This was back in the nineties when children came into school after they turned five.

Some Edwardian/Victorian schools were better but depending on which side of the building you taught/went to class in, depended on whether it was unreasonably hot in summer and freezing in winter. They were built with fireplaces, had outdoor toilets and possibly retrofitted with enormous pipes carrying hot water round. And toilets squeezed in one of the old cloakrooms. Often the blinds were a bit dodgy if they existed at all. Some classrooms had one wall that was a wood and glass partition onto the hall. They were shit for sound insulation and the latch door fastings clacked really loudly.

Water off a duck's back. It's been a while since I've been told to quit teaching though. I thought it was because the message was finally getting home about the critical teacher shortage.

Absobloodylutely.

I’m not convinced that schools should be air conditioned