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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Are all Y4 girls like this?

96 replies

Jennybeans401 · 15/07/2022 06:39

Dd in Y4 and throughout the year has struggled with being left out and bullied off and on. The school don't seem to take it seriously and think that this is what girls at this age are like.

Are all Y4 girls like this though? My other dcs are younger so I don't know. Yesterday dd came home and said a group of the girls were all loudly saying dd was last in every event at sports day (not true but dd believed them as it had been very close).

She got really upset, not really because of the sports day but more because it felt like they were ganging up on her. This seems to happen a lot where the group turn on her and either blame her for something or make fun of her. It's off and on but seems to be always dd.

OP posts:

Plogeggio · 15/07/2022 10:33

I was bullied at primary by a "lovely" girl - she was the headmistress's daughter. She knew exactly how to turn on the charm when adults were around, and knew exactly how to exclude the girls who didn't quite fit in when it was just us kids. Like all bullies, the only way to deal with it is to bring it into the open and don't be gaslighted into thinking your over reacting. Write a factual note to the school explaining what has happened and the impact on your daughter. Copy in the chair of the governors. Ask the school for a copy of their bullying policy. Keep following up in writing. Don't be fobbed off.

MrsSkylerWhite · 15/07/2022 10:35

No not all but in our experience, sadly quite common.

Rosehugger · 15/07/2022 10:35

No. Y4 is common for friendship drama and fallouts but this sounds like straight up bullying to me.

Glittertwins · 15/07/2022 10:44

Primatrying · 15/07/2022 09:44

In my experience my two best friends ditched me in Y5 and I didn't really have any friends in Y6. So I went to a school where I knew no one for seniors as a fresh start.

A similar thing happened in Y9, after which I made friends with an amazing group of friends who I'm still close to 25 years later.

So I do think it's common, but it is also painful. And there are other, nicer friends out there.

Sorry for what you went through - DD is going through the same timelines as you did.

itsgettingweird · 15/07/2022 11:41

Jennybeans401 · 15/07/2022 06:48

I've spoken to the teacher in the past, nothing gets done. The Head is the same, her response 'they probably don't know what they are doing' 'they are all lovely girls'.

The school is great when these issues are not happening but when there are problems they seem to want to brush them to one side.

My response to this would be if a group of 8/9 year old girls don't understand the meaning or emotional consequences of their words and actions they have a big problem that needs addressing as well as the bullying.

I would start a very formal paper trail. Firstly with an email to HT asking what school are going to do to address the bullying with reference to their bullying policy.

I'd also be teaching dd to respond with very casual British off to comments such as coming last in sports day with

"Well someone has to come last <with a shrug and laugh> and at least it appears they get noticed as much as the winner. No one seems to have noticed or cared where any of you came" and then to breezingly walk away and not give them the chance to continue it.

(I realise she didn't come last but it'll take the wind from their sales and hopefully give your dd confidence)

Treaclemine · 15/07/2022 11:52

Check that the bullying policy includes relational aggression (new term I've just found) possibly referring to some of exclusion, "ignoring, teasing, gossiping, secrets, backstabbing, rumour spreading and hostile body language (i.e., eye-rolling and smirking)." (Harvested from Psychology Today, article not wholly helpful.). If it doesn't, ask why.
There's not much online, years after that INSET, dealing with girls still seems a work in progress.

CovidPest · 15/07/2022 11:56

To add a different view, it isn't always the lovely, quiet, shy 'good girls' that are feeling left out.

Sometimes, and I have seen this up close myself, it's actually the girls who cause lots of drama, and are jealous and possessive of their 'friends' that experience this. In year 4 and up girls become more conscious of their friends' behaviour and realise that they no longer want to put up with friend / frenemy's controlling ways. When dd was in year 4 her previously close friend constantly put her down, digs every day and complaints when dd wanted to join another group of girls who were having fun and not dragging her down through drama and passive aggressive sulking and behaviour. Guess who felt like the victim in this? Yes, drama girl. My dd gave her many chances to play but expected her to be nice to her. Friend continued being petty and jealous so they stopped being friends. But to this day the mother of the girl that was prone to drama, gossip and jealousy thinks my dd was the mean one just because she didn't feel like playing with someone who kept being unkind to her.

My dd stood up for herself and the other girl regarded that as mean and unreasonable. 🤔They are older now but the other girl has been falling in and out of friendships while dd has had a steady group of friends. Sometimes it's the not so nice behaved ones who feel left out because other girls don't want to put up with a bad friend any longer. It's not alway clear cut.

LuckyAmy1986 · 15/07/2022 12:42

@Jennybeans401 are there any other schools you could consider moving her too? There will be these sorts of issues anywhere granted, but it will give her a fresh start. Hopefully year 5 will be easier

alphapie · 15/07/2022 12:44

Yes of course, every girl on the planet in this age group acts exactly the same as what to you've described

Womblesaremyfavouritefood · 15/07/2022 13:08

Haven't RTFT, sorry, but Y4 was hell for us. DD bullied, excluded, humiliated etc by other girls. School didn't want to know ... at all. We changed school for Y5 and she hasn't looked back. Now a happy, confident, beautiful teenager.

VincaBlue · 15/07/2022 13:13

Of course not all year 4 girls are like that. There's no age group of either sex where everyone is the same, even babies have different temperaments. Is your dd a bully who leaves others out? No and nor are many others her age.

losingit31 · 15/07/2022 13:28

As a primary teacher for over 20 years, y4 girls are the worst, in my experience. There will always be some exceptions, of course.

Mariposista · 15/07/2022 13:29

I really feel for you daughter. 9/10 year old girls and their friendships can be so fickle. This sounds quite nasty and the teacher needs to be nipping this in the bud, as it is so upsetting for the girl who is the target. I don't think moving classes/schools will help. While it is by no means normal, sadly this sort of thing goes on everywhere. Get her to make friends with some boys - much less complicated!

HundredAcreW00d · 15/07/2022 13:50

My DC attended a very lovely local village school and it began around Y1 there. However here it appeared led by the parents and their cliques. They would try to outdo one another with lavish parties, holidays and days out, excluding whichever children they felt did not fit the bill (or their parents didn't).

easyday · 15/07/2022 13:53

No. But some girls are just nasty and they are that way in Y4 or Y6 or whatever year they are in. The school needs to crack down, but there's an amazing amount that goes on in school that teachers are not aware of.

Original poster

Jennybeans401 · 15/07/2022 15:33

I spoke to the TA this morning who was very concerned and said she'd speak to you teacher about it. There's only one person usually in the playground greeting parents and pupils as they do drop off.

I thought the teacher night have messaged me today with an update but I've not heard anything yet. Dd said the girls were leaving her out again today. We are now thinking a change of school would be better for dd.

OP posts:

VincaBlue · 15/07/2022 15:36

Might be a good idea

Bananarama21 · 15/07/2022 21:54

Changing school might not necessarily be a good idea, she could find harder making new friends in another school with established friendship groups.

Treaclemine · 16/07/2022 09:41

I had a change of school aged 14 from a private school where some staff were complicit in bullying (I had not grasped that what happens at school stays at school, and was regarded as a sneak by the head for telling mum about things). I dreaded going to a state school with my private accent and all, but the girls there were great, no side at all. And, I found out later, they had not picked on me for inadvertently breaking up a friendship - staff had put me with one of the two to be showen the ropes, and we hit it off. If the school won't change, it may be a solution.
Years later I met a woman who went to the class I had left as I had left it and was bullied by the gang who had bullied me. She got through by accepting her place in the pecking order, submitting, and not sneaking about why she was crying.
Worse than East End gangsters about "grasses" they were.

stickygotstuck · 16/07/2022 10:00

IME end of Y4 is when they learn they can gang up on others. If just one child is that way inclined, then the others follow and there's always one being ostracised. This was my DD at the end of Y4.

Y5 was awful, she was in tears before school most mornings. I spoke to the teacher, I mentioned bullying by exclusion and she was genuinely shocked that I thought so.

Yes, there were talks with the class (as it happens, they'd just done a full term on 'kindness').

But at that age they have learned to say the right things and pretend they're little angles ('lovely girls'), so no use. This was a 'small school with a lovely family feel'. Bollocks to that. Because of that, the school was in denial.

The school did provide some emotional training for DD which did help a bit. But really the background thinking was that DD was somehow in the wrong for walking away and not joining in. DD dislikes conflict, and why on earth would you join a group of people who've told you 'we don't want you to play with us anymore'?

We did suggest changing schools but DD didn't want to and persevered. Wish we'd taken her out. The pandemic arrived in Y6 and that was bliss for DD.

But the exclusion and ostracising has stayed with her, and she struggles in high school. Like a PP said, she assumes it's her. It really isn't.

jmpt29 · 16/07/2022 16:48

From my experience, yes they are. I'd raise with teacher but they will probably ignore and do nothing.

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