Are all Y4 girls like this?

[Jennybeans401]

Dd in Y4 and throughout the year has struggled with being left out and bullied off and on. The school don't seem to take it seriously and think that this is what girls at this age are like.

Are all Y4 girls like this though? My other dcs are younger so I don't know. Yesterday dd came home and said a group of the girls were all loudly saying dd was last in every event at sports day (not true but dd believed them as it had been very close).

She got really upset, not really because of the sports day but more because it felt like they were ganging up on her. This seems to happen a lot where the group turn on her and either blame her for something or make fun of her. It's off and on but seems to be always dd.

Your dc’s school must have an anti-bullying policy. They must publish it (I would expect it to be on their website. So would Ofsted.) They also need a complaints policy.

Find the policy, or ask the school office for it. If they refuse (which I think is unlikely) you can complain to Ofsted.

if the school has followed is policy in its response so far, you need to escalate to the next level, by writing to the head (as this is now repeated bullying). If not, you should write a complaint according to the complaints policy, that the school has not followed its anti bullying policy.

I know that this probably seems like an arcane way to go about things, but I have been a school governor and know what heads can and cannot ignore!

@waterrat yes I'm thinking the same. It's a shame as she's had some brilliant days at fun parties at the school but it's like these girls see her happier and want to pull her down again.

Yes the girls (just girls ) had a sit down session with a teacher to discuss bullying and friendships as the whole year girls have been falling out.

@Bwix the class teacher never responds to my emails or phone calls and the Head sends a very perfunctory email at times when I've complained. It's usually a few lines saying that she's seen them playing in the playground and no issues.

Again, you are blaming something that is not to blame - my child went to a mixed year school but the school was good and bullying was tackled swiftly.

I can see you are finding it hard but are you not angry at the teacher and head for not doing their jobs?

not been my experience. this is a school issue

I'm a school governor and that response from school is pathetic.

I know in our school the teacher would speak to the girls/class about being mean, if it persists there could be trips to the head. That behaviour goes against the values of our school, all children know we are one community/family and to take care of each other.

Given the other things you've said, your DD would also get referred for emotional support/counselling with a specialist trained teacher and we have a mental health counsellor coming in once per week.

Girls in the primary I work in are a lot like this on and off. One of the biggest drains on my time is sorting out friendship fall outs. But if it’s repetitive y the same people towards your daughter, that’s the definition of bullying. Talk to her teacher.

We had problems in years 4 and 5 when the wannabe queen bees tried to flex their muscles and was worst with the girls who had older siblings. School was good in dealing with it.

I work in a primary school and in my experience Y4 and Y5 are the worst for this. It usually starts in Y4, I think it's something to do with developing social skills and relationships. It's an age where they have become more socially adept- they are testing the boundaries and developing and establishing deeper friendships not just the superficial surface friendships of early childhood. Unfortunately, some children inevitably like to confirm their popularity by being a bit mean to others. It can be horrible for those who become victims but it usually settles down as they re-establish friendship groups and find their own niche. School need to support the children and work through it but try not to make too a big a deal as it can make things worse. I usually find by Y6 everyone is rubbing along a bit better together again.

Hi you probably think it is just dd because you will not hear the others complaining to their mums. In my experience as a year 6 teacher the school will be speaking to the culprits and educating them about kindness. Sometimes it will be a detention or sanction for the culprit or sometimes a chat about being kind and how what they have said is unkind. However in the case of the comment you describe here you need to start teaching your dd to be resilient and stand up for herself. E.g. role play what she should say and help her see that maybe these girls are not ones she should listen to or care about. Help her to choose kind people to be with.

My dd is y4 and I have noticed there seem to be more friendship drama's this year. Lots of 'Rosie and Daisy fell out today and Rosie said this and Daisy said this and I said .....blah blah blah' I think it's part of getting to know social dynamics and I have lots of chat's with dd about not getting involved and how saying to Rosie 'Ignore everything Daisy says' could upset Daisy and so on. However, a whole group saying mean things does sound more like bullying and I would go back to the teacher and frame it that way. School have a duty to act and in my experience nice kids are capable of bullying too

The school's response is dreadful.

It's "normal" for the age group as in it's "normal" for a two year old to get bitten at nursery; it happens sometimes and needs managing.

We're transitioning to secondary school and chose a school with a good reputation for dealing with problems not the one that apparently doesn't (i.e. they pretend they don't exist and let them fester).

Go down the official routes by the policy so that they can't ignore it.

I find chn are brilliant at PSHe and know exactly how they’re suppose to accept everyone, value difference, be kind and then run out on the playground be the complete opposite. School needs to step in.

*supposed

Yes it is typical for year 4, I teach alot of schools with that year group for swimming and all teachers tell me they constantly fall out with each other. I also have a dd 9 year who tells me the girls fall out with her. She's one of the quiet ones who doesn't get involved. Girls can be evil but the teachers need to address it and nip things early.

No defo not all girls just the nasty awful ones. Get on the phone to the school ASAP.

Can you practice things to say back to the bullies so she has something to back herself up.

My niece being bullied by few boys so I told her to look the main 1 up an down, say grow up, flick her hair over her shoulder turn an walk away from him. It worked.

It's not getting into massive argument and ending up upset or in trouble. But it's being assertive and faking confidence like she was too good to gey into stupid petty childish rows.

Hope your girl is OK x

My DD had problems in Year 6. She's autistic and a former friend began bullying her. It got really unpleasant. The school wouldn't do anything, even when it was obvious how distressed DD had become. In fact, to make matters even worse, her Yr6 teacher sided with the bully and claimed it was DD's fault she was being bullied 😡

My daughter is in Year 4 and her and her friends and school experiences are definitely not like this. I would see the teacher/school.

I would look at other schools and ask how they deal with bullying. Your dd’s school sounds useless.

I taught Y4 and Y5 and the majority of friendship issues I had to deal with were with the boys, not the girls. Have you had any mental health support outside of school for your DD when she was experiencing the intrusive thoughts - a CAMHS referral, for example? It sounds to me like the school needs to be doing some social and emotional type interventions with this group of girls to address their behaviour with each other.

I think I'd ask for a formal meeting with the teacher (not one snatched at the classroom door) where you sit down and express all your concerns, and ask for a plan of action from the school. I'll put my hands up and say it can be tricky as a teacher to see the difference between a standard fall out between kids that will resolve itself on its own, and true bullying. Parents can be the key to making the teacher aware of what is really going on, so do go in - don't give up.

It's disgraceful that the Head is dismissing your concerns. Ask her to provide you with a copy of their bullying policy and ask what the procedure is for making a formal complaint. You may find that just asking the Head those things might stir her into action.

I agree with all of this post!

Ask teacher and head for bullying policy. This alone will probably make them act. Write down incidents and names dates. Ask for a meeting at beginning of term to discuss how they will deal.

Some classes are just horrible. I held my child back a year to get out of a class like this (holding back is common in my country). The new class was a breath of fresh air and the kids are so nice to each other. Best decision. Get her out of there one way or the other. Bullies are soul destroying.