Friend and her husband’s financial arrangement

[Salvia89]

Hi all,

I was chatting to my friend (Let’s call her Emma) the other day.. she and her husband have a 1.5 year old DC and she’s been back at work for 6 months after mat leave.

She mentioned in passing that it’s soul destroying working and only getting about £200 at the end of the month after paying nursery fees and I said “well you need to think of it as a joint expense.. I.e you’re only really paying half.. or actually even less if you think of it proportionally from your salaries”. She’s probably on a salary of mid 20s and husband is on about 80k I guess.

She said “well no, as I pay for nursery out of my wage. Tom (not real name) pays for everything else like mortgage, meals out etc, so it’s fine”. I said “hmm… ok” then the conversation moved on.

Later I remembered a time when we were chatting towards the end of her Mat leave where she said she’d blown her months cash on a lunch that we had out. The only money that she was getting on mat leave was her crappy mat pay which for the end I think was next to nothing!

He on the other hand was going out for fancy dinners with his mates.

I mentioned that it seemed a little very unfair and she said that he’s give her some extra money if asked so it was fine.

she doesn’t seem worried by the situation and seems quite happy..

Do you all agree that this is massively unfair?! Surely as a married couple with kids you pool your resources.. especially when there’s such a disparity in salaries.

Anyway.. my AIBU. Should I bring it up again and advise her to seek a fairer agreement?

YABU - they both seem happy so let them get on with it
YANBU - it’s worth bringing it up again and suggesting a fairer split.

On the face of it, it doesn't seem fair that her personal 'allowance' has reduced massively and his has stayed the same. If it was me and my close friend I'd be blunt and tell her if I didn't think it was fair, but I know she would take it coming from me. It depends on your friendship I think, if you can talk about things like that to her. It is very hard to talk about money with friends.

Dh and I are in a similar situation with massively different wages, he (by choice, as he works in finance) sorts out the finances every month so that we have equal 'fun' money. No joint account, but he gives me money each month to reimburse my family spends and to make it equal, and we have a joint credit card. We had a very grown up conversation about it when we thought about trying for a baby, and, most importantly, we are both happy with the arrangement.

You only know what you know about their finances. For all you know your friend could be rubbish with money which is why they don't have a shared 'pot'. Or maybe her DH is financially abusing her. Perhaps they have huge debts. You don't know what their bills are, or their incomes after tax are (remember someone earning £80k doesn't take home four times what a £20k earner does).

I don't subscribe to the idea that bills should be split proportionately but spending money should be equal. There are far too many variables in every relationship for a one size fits all approach.

In short, just stay out of it unless she is asking for your advice

I think it is a bit concerning that they don’t have the same fun money. I guess I might gently ask her how she is finding things, mention cost of living etc. If she doesn’t say that much, I wouldn’t probe more. But if she says that she’s always skint, I guess I might suggest that her DH transfers her some money to equalise - as from this thread, it seems to be the more usual thing.

She shouldn't be crimping whilst he's splashing out!

If she mentions it again you could say your opinion that you think it’s odd he has more ‘spending’ money.
It very much depends on what she’s funding. Has she got access to his money for clothes, activities, haircuts etc. If he’s in latest styles and she can only afford charity shop and diy cuts then it’s clearly not right.
She’s married so ultimately if she did split then she’d be entitled to share of his assets and pension.
When child’s free nursery hours kick in she’ll have more spare cash. She could still claim child benefit I think to give her more spends (and him repay via tax)

It is a short term expense for her.

Lots of couples work their finances out like this, £50 a week after bills are paid, nursery, mortgage is pretty normal in the early days of cohabiting.

My Dsis always paid nursery, her DC is in school now and her husband has continued as he is.

Well to be fair his take home pay would be about 55k to her 17k of both work full time if he is paying everything other then the childcare which is probably a huge amount of his income, has he always paid everything so she was used to having full wage to herself before child, and anyone spending 200 on 1 meal is crazy

Why are you concerned about other peoples financial situations? Only on Mumsnet will be seen that you should “pool your resources together”. Never understood that to be honest.

If she seems happy then I would stay out of it. You've already mentioned it, that's enough.

It is very difficult to say what is fair in someone else's marriage because you don't have all the information. You're guessing their salaries and you could be wildly wrong, plus there could be all sorts of other factors at play - one or both of them could have other sources of income, a lump sum of inheritance money, a mountain of debt etc. You just don't know from the outside.

You have raised the issue twice and established Emma is quite happy with arrangement. To keep bringing it up risks your friendship. You are overstepping the mark to bring it up a third time.

Your friend is being abused. Staying silent is not ok.

I know some women in this position don’t think they are being abused, but there are also women doing all the housework and child care, women who are constantly belittled, and women who are coerced into marital sex who don’t think they are being abused either. Denial or intense socialization doesn’t change reality.

And that's not normal for me. All people have different ways of doing it.

Hmm. I have relatives who are married with kids and do not share finances, things like holidays or really big expenses they will sort out between them for the family, but personal things are their own. The wife there has just had cosmetic surgery, she couldn't afford it so loaned from her husband, she will pay it back. It works for them.

If she asked for money, he would give it to her, so I don't see it as an issue. If she new a lunch with you was going to blow her £200, why didn't she ask him for some money towards it?

It's hard to say if he is abusive, that l depends on how he reacts to being asked for further money. Personally, I wouldn't really need to ask, if I said I was going out for lunch mine would offer to give me money towards it.

I wouldn't want joint finances with anyone personally. If any bills need to be paid jointly then I would transfer my % into the bank account of my partner, or he would pay his % into my account. I don't really see the need for a joint account.

Also, having singular accounts means that if someone has a moment and spends a bit recklessly, at least it's just their part of the money they've blown!

He pays for things for her and the family, and probably is building up good savings for their future and children... but I do think maybe he should just pay her a % of the childcare into her account also if she is really struggling.

He is financially abusing her & neglecting to pay for his own child's care

Yet keeping a very nice home over their head, paying for holidays and meals and the majority of the family bills. Such neglect I've never seen in my life 🙄

Just because he doesn't pay for the childcare, doesn't mean he isn't supporting his children's care in other ways financially. Likewise, is OP neglecting to pay for her child's care/security because she doesn't contribute to the mortgage? No?

She's not being financially abused. Her husband pays for everything else and she has access to her own money. He also helps her out when she asks him for money.

£200 is about £50 a week to spend on stuff not already budgeted for. Many people manage on that! But I agree it is not a lot and she could perhaps ask her DH for a monthly contribution towards the childcare costs so that she does not have to approach him for money every month.

What if finances dictated decisions? Tom pays for the mortgage so he looks into best ones in his opinion and gets on with it without too much involvement from Emma. Emma chooses the nursery and childcare arrangements that work for her and Tom respects her decision making.

I think people get confused on what financial abuse actually is...

I think the percentage thing is weird. Everything just goes into a big pot here and all bills come out of it, including our (equal) personal spends.

Thanks all!

Interesting thread and glad I asked. In other finance split threads (where the situation is usually a million times worse than this) nearly everyone replies that they pool resources then split once you are married/have DC. It’s interesting to see here that lots of you don’t do that and are happy.

Tbh it still doesn’t sit right with me, especially as her lack of funds is due to DC. She suffers for having DC and he doesn’t. He’s obviously not transferring her much extra money (more likely she’s just not asking) when she’s skint when he’s obviously not.

I’ve not bought it up twice.. she has. She wasn’t blowing £200 one one meal out.. at that point she had even less per month, as was at the end of mat leave. I won’t bring it up again out of the blue, but if she complains about lack of cash again I’ll tell her that it doesn’t seem fair and mention how I do it (pooling). She’s one of my oldest friends so don’t think she’ll be offended by my comment.

Up to them to make their own financial arrangements I suppose. I find it sad that it's so normal for couples to have shared life/ house/ children but not finances, but you can't make people do it.

I think you are a good friend who wants to help. The only fair way to pool income is by ratio. So if she earns £20k and he earns £80 k she should be paying 20% if all bills and he 80%. Then what is left should be discussed jointly, whether to split equally or on a different ratio.

It will be interesting to see what happens when she no longer has childcare costs, and if her husband suddenly decides she should pay towards the bills!

She suffers for having DC and he doesn’t

This is the key point. They should be able to afford similar lifestyles, due to having equal amounts of personal money for things like eating out, hobbies, clothes, tech etc. They should also both be able to save similar amounts, not him have loads more savings in his name. After all, he's already likely to have a much larger pension.

This is most fairly achieved by pooling all resources, using these to pay all joint costs like mortgage, bills, childcare, groceries etc and then splitting what's left 50/50. Using a percentage system doesn't work when there's a large disparity in earnings because he'll still be left with loads more spending money than her.

Her job isn't necessarily easier/lower stress/shorter hours due to lower pay, many low paid jobs are high stress and irregular/long hours plus what if she was also a lawyer? They'd likely both be working longer hours, more childcare would be needed, plus he'd need to do more at home that she's likely doing more of now.

To be honest I think the whole separate bank accounts is weird. We have one account all bills and spending come out of it. I spend what I like, so does he, never been a problem.
I would refuse to live like that, but each to their own.

That only works if neither of you overspend relative to your income.

If either of you are the 'see money must spend it' type then they'll be off buying themselves all sorts of none essentials and the time that the DDs for the mortgage, council tax etc come due, there isn't enough money to pay them...

It would be fairer to calculate the % contributions on an after tax basis since that's the actual amount of cash each partner will have to contribute. Someone on £80k will be suffering a higher tax burden than someone on £20k - the ratios should reflect this.