Living off a man!!!

[iabr]

If you are among the posters on here who always sneer at SAHMs for 'living off the husband,' do you also -

• sneer at women who work PT and therefore earn less than their husbands - so are, by definition, also 'living off the husband" to a greater or lesser extent?

• sneer at women who work full-time, but still earn significantly less than the husband, so the house and other expenses are largely funded by his higher income anyway?

• sneer at any woman who has a dual income lifestyle that she couldn't maintain on her own salary / wealth?

I really don't want to get into endless personal anecdotes of - "Well I earn £x and DH earns £x..." This is about the issue of 'financial independence' within families per se. - ie . recognising that it's accrued family wealth that determines financial independence and it's not necessarily always as simple as who earns what. A SAHM may well have greater financial independence than a woman on a high salary, depending on that family's underlying financial circumstances.

So AIBU to say to MN - Stop telling SAHMs they are 'financially vulnerable' - unless you know the details of their unique financial family circumstances!

@iabr you misunderstand me. I quite accept that you and your dh feel you need you to SAH to facilitate your family set up. That's fine!

However, You cannot extrapolate from your situation that a person can only do a high earning job, travel, create new jobs and wealth etc etc with a partner not working to facilitate it. There are plenty of people in high earning, international jobs who have working partners too

"Because not every husband works fixed hours in a given place? Because some husbands travel a lot?"

specific to men then is it?

The how is easy...it's not making the sort of belittling remarks found on this thread, or thinking them.

The why?
Childcare is a valuable contribution to society, paid or unpaid.
I don't like the idea of reducing someone's worth to the amount of tax they pay as some here seem to be suggesting.
I don't like the type of thinking that says an accountant or solicitor, for example, is of more worth to society than a carer or a supermarket worker or an artist, simply because they earn more.
Many of the wealthier SAHMs, the type the OP is specifically talking about, contribute a lot in charity work too. And if you're not working 9-5 there's sometimes more time to call in to elderly neighbours or help out at the local school etc. Being useful to society isn't all about paying higher taxes, nor should it be.

The how is easy...it's not making the sort of belittling remarks found on this thread, or thinking them.

We can't commit thoughtcrime?

I'm not extrapolating anyone needs to do anything! My whole point, is people will always do what they want in the specific context of their own families, so I wish MN would hold off with all the "SAHams are all this" and WOHMs are all that" because there is no such thing and the distinction is not clear cut.

@iabr I'm even more confused now! You chose to start this thread! No one has insulted you; as far as I can see the thread has been a straightforward discussion.

Many of us have said multiple times that of course it's up to individual family units to decide what's best for them.

I would, however, highlight that it's a simple fact that financially, women are many times more likely than men to have lower earnings, lower pensions and to live their later years with insufficient funds. And that's an issue I believe worth discussing. That's not sneering. That's just having an honest discussion.

If that's what you wanted why on earth did you make a thread to discuss exactly that?

@Icanstillrecallourlastsummer exactly!

It's like me, as a WOHM, starting a thread to say I wish MN would hold off with all the ridiculous statements like 'WOHM don't raise their children.'!!

I mean, obviously there are a few sad individuals who are threatened by anyone who does things differently to themselves, but... why draw attention to that by starting a thread? It feels like wanting to be offended!

The vast majority of people seriously do not give a shit about whether some random woman works or not!

The vast majority of people seriously do not give a shit about whether some random woman works or not!
And yet they seem to come on loads of threads to tell sahm that we are doing it all wrong!

Even on this thread a wohm has come on to tell a sahp that she didn't mean what she said and that she actually meant something else instead!

And vice versa of course.

Well, I haven't got all day to trawl through thousands of threads to try to weigh up offensive comments against SAHM v WOHM.

And life's too short- that sort of crap is dull.

That's why it's a bit weird of the OP to start a thread about it almost inviting people to be critical of her choices when really we don't care! She's one individual, with a family set up which suits her and her DH.

Now, a far more interesting issue- and one definitely worthy of debate- is why this is a gender issue at all. Why statistically women are financially more vulnerable than men. Why men are more likely to be in high earning roles. Why it's disproportionally women who end up not working or working PT when they become parents. Those are important issues.

Who is sneering?

I think some people might have correctly said that if you have no career/income of your own in a marriage you are making yourself quite vulnerable should your partner leave you. Or that some women also end up feeling trapped in toxic relationships because they are worried they won't be able to support themselves and their kids if they leave because they have not been in the workplace for a while.

This is just common sense stuff...

Personally I believe people should be able to choose whatever life suits them best.

I didn't start a thread asking people to criticise SAHMs. I started a thread (as stated in the OP) about assumptions made about the 'financial vulnerability' of SAHMs as opposed to women who work PT or FT.

To be honest, it is because I've recently returned to working part time. On threads in the past, whenever I've mentioned I was a SAHM, it seems to trigger an inevitable bizarre pile on with people making all sorts of projections and insults that, to be honest, are more about them than about me. Then this will nearly always morph into some totally uncalled for argument about structural workplace inequality! People genuinely seem to be under the impression that SAHMs have never considered these things, don't understand and don't know their own minds, so see it as their calling to educate them! So very, very strange.

Never in my life would it enter my head to tell anyone who works in any capacity how they should feel about their chosen 'role' in society. I couldn't care less. Nobody is defined by a job anyway.

Now that I'm part-time, I am discovering I can post now without the same old same old same old. But in reality,, I'm still in pretty much the same financial position as before. It seems to me anything goes on here, as long as you're not a SAHM.

Anyway, it doesn't matter.

Then this will nearly always morph into some totally uncalled for argument about structural workplace inequality!

You don't see how there might be connection between the two?

@iabr

And there you have it.

The ultimate sahm sneer.

'more value than a SAHM being with her own children?'

@Marynotsocontrary

If sahm aren't doing anything different in terms of overall parenting what difference does it make that wm say they do everything a sahm does?

Its just short hand for saying there's no difference in out come. Because there's not.

Most wm are doing similar amounts of parenting than sahms.

Especially with school age kids

From my perspective, I can understand a SAHP when kids are all young, but when they are all school age I'm not so sure why you wouldn't contribute to finances, unless the other partner would prefer the other parent to be at home and it was mutually agreed. I know a couple of SAHM's who tend to wiggle out of working when they are in lots of debt as a family, which I really don't understand, but it is their choice.

I think some people just like a bit of freedom from working and earning a wage. I don't think it's sneering. Plenty of SAHP's on here commemt like working when kids are young equates to neglect too.

@iabr it's not assumptions when people are referencing facts. It's a fact that women as a group are likely to be more financially vulnerable than men and within that group, women who are out of the workplace for a significant time or only work PT are more vulnerable than women who aren't.

Just because your own, individual circumstances are not typical, doesn't mean that women's financial vulnerability isn't a really important issue. That's why people discuss it on threads. Not sneering. Just discussing, you know, a fairly important issue affecting half the population...

"@iabr it's not assumptions when people are referencing facts. It's a fact that women as a group are likely to be more financially vulnerable than men and within that group, women who are out of the workplace for a significant time or only work PT are more vulnerable than women who aren't."

Omg - I know this!!!! But if I am posting about my husband going on a run or whatever, why do I need 1.000 posts telling me about 'women as a group' simply because I might mention I am a SAHM?

You sound paranoid!

That just doesn't happen. Posters raise the issue in response to relevant threads.

Well presumably you wouldn't mention it if it wasn't relevant?

No, when I have posted about something to do with my MIL, or kids or DH or whatever, any time I have happened to mention being a SAHM, the whole thread gets derailed. It's a unique AIBU phenomenon!

I'm not particularly paranoid. This AIBU section is mental. Maybe other sections like 'Relationships' or 'Chat' are more balanced and representative of real life. I don't know. Never posted there.

Normally. I'm on the Education threads. I know how it will go on AIBU - it is what it is. On reflection, I think I gravitate here when I have PMT.

I agree completely. Well said. 👏👏👏

If sahm aren't doing anything different in terms of overall parenting what difference does it make that wm say they do everything a sahm does?

@Topgub Because they often say "I do all you do and work too".
It's a put-down.

Usually in response to being told that WOHP - no, WOHM - are part time parents, outsourcing parenting, letting strangers raise their kids or some other shite.

I've always WOH and am quite happy to admit that I changed fewer nappies, prepared fewer lunches and did fewer other activities for my dc than I would have done had I been a SAHM.

The really important job of parenting, however... well that's totally down to dh and me