To struggle with a friends extreme anti abortion views

[bagpuss90]

I accept that we all have to agree to disagree on some stuff. But I am struggling with a friends extreme anti abortion views . She thinks even if a woman is raped- she shouldn’t be allowed an abortion. She’s quite opinionated anyway . I can see us falling out soon. I’ve told her I no longer wish to discuss it but she still airs her views. The thing that really gets me (and okay we have probably all done things we regret) is that she’s had two abortions herself including a late one . I don’t want to break off our friendship but I’m struggling

As a teenager I had my rights removed about my own body and abortion . I went through absolute hell looking back I’m surprised I didn’t kill myself. What happened to me was horrific , barbaric and illegal.

My personal views about abortion extend only to myself. Every other woman deserves the choice. No matter what I think (which I know is clouded by what happened to me) even if my daughter ever wanted an abortion I’d be fully supporting her for that reason I’ve never really told others what happened to me as I want my daughter to always be able to approach me and not be wary.

There is such thing as personal ethics and then social ethics. What is your red line might not be the red line that society has and for very good reasons. The difficulty is to have a friendship with someone who sees everything in black and white and never accepts that there are shades of grey. I would take a break, at least until the election in the us die down, I would not accept to discuss the subject with her at that point. As a friend the only aspect of abortion that I would talk to her about is her experience and how it shaped her, nothing more. You are entitled to your positions. If not, this is not friendship.

Yes they can, but when they can’t keep them to themselves (which also implies a degree of extremism) despite their friend asking them to drop the subject they probably can’t.

Amateur psychoanalysis on them will achieve fuck all too, it’s just giving them the opportunity to talk at you, which if you’re not on side or interested isn’t a friendship.

@HairyMcLarie could not agree with you more.

I think “agree to disagree” it’s fine if the question is “marmite is the best thing ever” or something like that.

But when someone is being racist, misogynistic, homophobe, extremist or force birthers then no, “agree to disagree” is not okay.

You cannot be friends with someone who shares views that go against human rights.

I wouldn’t be friends with someone whose hero is Hitler, or who thinks slavery was the best thing ever.

Forcing ANY woman UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES to have a child against her own will is against human rights for so many reasons, and if that woman was raped even more so.

Makes my blood boil.

I can only imagine the level of pain, confusion, desperation, vulnerability etc that would lead a woman who's had 2 abortions, inc a relatively late one to become a religious zealot, and so Anti abortion

She is probably struggling massively mentally.... she has found a crutch, possibly found something that she can get forgiveness through etc. This is possibly the only way she can exist, without losing her mind.

I know a lady like this, Dint know if she has ever terminations but she she an alcoholic who, like many female alcoholics, ended up being raped by a predatory man. She was raised in a very religious household, she has now returned to it, has married a Christian whose views are do extreme that other Christians on their church (described to me as a cult by a former member) find him extreme.
But she is stable. She is "happy".

Let her have the crutch she so obviously desperately needs, but if she won't stop preaching etc (likely) you are going to have to distance yourself.

Extreme religious views generally do not speak of a mentally well, stable person. That's what she is now, so you'll have to make your friendship decisions in line with that.

*But she is stable.

Sorry, I've realised that sounds in total contradiction to my last sentence; I mean she is stable in that she is no longer an alcoholic.

“I’ve told her I no longer wish to discuss it but she still airs her views”.

This to me is the deal breaker. A complete lack of respect

My instant reaction is she sounds crackers, but actually probably deeply fucked up and in denial?

You could kindly suggest that her lack of compassion and practicality is perhaps due to her own difficult experience, and really she needs to go address that. Which might both shut her up and encourage her to sort herself out.

Otherwise just tell her that in your view control over reproduction is at the root of human rights, and you cannot continue to spend any more time with her if she utters one more word on the subject. And stick to that. She sounds quite adolescent so firm boundaries may work.

For various reasons my work place had/has several fundamentalist type Christians, and they are friends with, hang out with, socialise with etc other Christians who share their beliefs & lifestyle.

It is not really compatible with non fundamentalist Christian etc people. Most of them djng even want to be friends with non fundamentalist Christians. They might do so to see if you are amenable to joining their church and acquiring their beliefs l, but once its clear you're not, they'll generally not try tk ve friends.

Your friend may be at that point; she's petddhs trying to get you to "convert" because, if you don't, she feels like she can no longer have ablative friendship with you. That might account for the continued "preaching" ... until she gives up.

You can appreciate your friendship to date, but realise that it cannot, currently, really continue.

*active friendship

My work colleagues were much more subtle/gentleman in their approach.. prob because we are just work colleagues, with no background of longterm friendship or even acquaintance. She's possibly going at it like this because she feels she knows you well/a long time. Or just her personality, or a combination.

IMHO you can only keep a civil distant acquaintance with her. Unless she changes her beliefs and lifestyle.

I couldn’t put it better myself.

Preaching tolerance for such inhuman and cruel views is barmy!

She certainly has a right to her opinion and I wouldn't try to "silence" her - that is, pressure her not to discuss the topic with anyone or speak publically about it.

BUT:

(1) a friend should be able to accept that a certain topic of discussion is off-limits. This doesn't mean that topic should never be discussed with anyone, just that you ask a personal friend to do you the courtesy of respecting your wishes to avoid that topic when you're present. For example, if you were struggling with trauma after a rape and had asked for friends to avoid bringing up the topic of rape until you've had a chance to process the trauma and learn to manage your reactions and your friend kept bringing up the topic when it was not essential to do so, you'd very likely consider your friend a bit of an inconsiderate, self-centred arse who values her sopabox - at all times, everywhere - over your well-being and the friendship.

(2) In the current global environment positions like hers disproportionately hurt women and perpetuate and normalise misogyny. If her views coexist with a huge targeted effort on her part to eliminate and recrimilnalise rape and to overhaul the whole environment around sexual health and reproductive rights to eliminate the need for abortion specifically, and she advocates phasing out abortion in favour of other options when they genuinely become available, then I might take a more sympathetic view. But her "no exceptions!" stance isn't reasonable. I think it's fine to cut such people out of your life or limit contact with them if you wish; there are plenty of misogynists you won't be able to avoid but you don't have to be close personal friends with them.

She'd be an ex-friend real quick, for me.

Also, I'd be bringing up that late abortion at every turn.

What a hateful bitch!!

There are opinions and there are opinions.

I personally couldn't be friends with anyone who was eg racist, homophobic, a climate change denier, an anti-vaxxer, a misogynist, a Trump loving gun-toter etc.

What can I say, I just hate c**nts, and I'm afraid people who are extremely anti abortion in the way OP has described would be in the cunt category for me.

Your friend is perfectly entitled to reject the idea of abortion absolutely for herself.

It's the fact that she thinks she has the right to decide for others, regardless of circumstance that would be the deal breaker for me. I couldn't be friends with someone so interfering or judgemental.

It is not a “it’s just an opinion”. It is a belief they are trying to impose on someone else.

And the problem is that then a lot of people with “that opinion” get together, they chose a big idiot, vote to get bid idiot in power and then make “the opinion” a law.

99% of the reasons that anti-abortion people have is based on a religious belief which, spoiler alert: other people might not follow.

If anyone is against abortion that’s good for them, they can just not have one. But under no circumstance should that be imposed on anyone else.

All this 'different opinions' stuff. Personally not interested in being friends with religious fundamentalists. They can go air their opinions somewhere else.

Shaming her for her late abortion to make your point would be very wrong.

Why not just go no contact or explain your stance reasonably ?

Everyone has red lines when it comes to people they are friends with.

Would you be friends with someone who is openly racist or homophobic?

@CapMarvel
Would you be friends with someone who is openly racist or homophobic?

Not at all because I believe they ought to have the same rights and privileges in the name of fairness and equality.

OP's friend clearly thinks unborn babies too have rights (rightly or wrongly/based on her faith or other reasons).

Your point doesn't really make so much sense then does it?

@StaunchMomma

• DoubleShotEspresso You are friends.

Friends can remain so but still hold different opinions surely?

There are opinions and there are opinions.

I personally couldn't be friends with anyone who was eg racist, homophobic, a climate change denier, an anti-vaxxer, a misogynist, a Trump loving gun-toter etc.

What can I say, I just hate c*nts, and I'm afraid people who are extremely anti abortion in the way OP has described would be in the cunt category for me.

As above I may not agree or even respect an opinion different to mine, but I'd defend anybody's right to hold that view, however revolting I might find that view.
Racism & homophobia represent hate to me so yeah couldn't consider a friendship with these.
Political views and rights to life though?! These are something I woukd happily argue against with any friend but equally agree to disagree.

Referring to any woman as belonging in "the c word category" is a complete no for me. I detest the word and think all women have a hard enough time these days and think this diminishes our rights snd views which I'm keen to see upheld, along with the right to an opinion , which yes o occasions I accept won't always be one I share.

What a coincidence. I know someone who is anti-abortion and yet has had at least one herself. I think they feel as though there’s ‘didn’t count’ or that their reason was an exception to their rules, or that they were ‘someone else’ back then. I don’t understand how they can be so hypocritical

Do you not think that someone thinking women shouldn't have the ability to control medical decisions over their own body is hateful?

You don't think forcing rape victims to give birth to a child they do not want is hateful?

You don't think forcing a 10 year old incest victim to give birth to a child that might kill her in the process is hateful?

The point, obviously, is that anyone can choose not to be friends with anyone for whatever reason.

I am not and would not be friends with an anti-choicer. I put such people in a similar group to racists etc as people whose views I just cannot align with or tolerate on any level.