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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To struggle with a friends extreme anti abortion views

89 replies

bagpuss90 · 10/07/2022 10:57

I accept that we all have to agree to disagree on some stuff. But I am struggling with a friends extreme anti abortion views . She thinks even if a woman is raped- she shouldn’t be allowed an abortion. She’s quite opinionated anyway . I can see us falling out soon. I’ve told her I no longer wish to discuss it but she still airs her views. The thing that really gets me (and okay we have probably all done things we regret) is that she’s had two abortions herself including a late one . I don’t want to break off our friendship but I’m struggling

OP posts:
Flangelica · 10/07/2022 11:32

These comments are awful.

Of course she is entitled to her opinion! Just because she disagrees with you doesn't mean she can't have an opinion.

And just because she's had an abortion doesn't mean she can't be anti-abortion now. People change. Experiences change people. Perhaps she regrets her abortions so bitterly that it changed her mind about them.

Don't be her friend if you don't want to.

Crimeismymiddlename · 10/07/2022 11:37

I can see why you would want a break from her. I have friends and family who are anti abortion, we are still friends and I respect their opinion, and they respect mine and we don’t talk about it.
Your friend does have the right to change her mind, it might be the experience she had shaped her, possibly she feels ashamed. We all change our minds on fundamental issues.
What I absolutely hate are the people who think abortion is only ok in the case of rape, it is such an arbitrary argument, and I think in practice the people saying it don’t believe in abortion at all but are too scaredy cat to admit it.

HairyMcLarie · 10/07/2022 11:44

I'm all for free speech and I have friends with many political and theoretical opinions but I draw the line at open homophobes, racists, misogynists and forced birthers.
If she doesn't believe in abortion she doesn't need to have one but I note she's had several so that makes her a hypocrite too.

SaltFlakes · 10/07/2022 11:51

This thread, and the number of 'no tories' in the dating non negotiables thread, really shows just how intolerant people on the left are.

I have plenty of friends with radically different views. Why should that stop a friendship? We just accept that the other holds 'unacceptable' views and move on.

Original poster
bagpuss90 · 10/07/2022 11:57

She does hold quite extreme views about other things. I mean she believes we are in the “end days” on Earth as written in the bible 🤷‍♀️

OP posts:
BeautifulSunrise · 10/07/2022 11:57

I have friends who have very different views to me. I love it! It's an opportunity to step outside your own thought/culture bubble and see how 'the other side' thinks. If your friend is willing to listen and honestly engage (not just bash you with her thoughts), then you will be able to have some fabulous conversations. But if not, you have a choice, a) respect her right to think differently but ask her to not bring it up or b) distance yourself from the friendship.

Personally I'd never distance myself from an otherwise good friendship just because they see the world differently.

FOTB · 10/07/2022 11:58

I couldn't stay friends with someone who wanted to inflict a baby on someone who had been raped. I think that's incredibly cruel and lacking in empathy, and those aren't values I want my friends to share.

Given the extraordinary physical and mental toll that pregnancy, childbirth and motherhood have on a woman, I don't think any woman should have to go through that without actively choosing it. It's not fair on the woman, and it's not fair on the child(ren).

I don't see how it's right that a woman who has been assaulted in the most appalling way ever should have to give birth to a child that's half her tormentor. A child is forever. A prison sentence these days isn't.

thecatsthecats · 10/07/2022 11:59

I do find it concerning that as a society we're losing our ability to talk about things we disagree about.

I'm not saying that you have to stay friends with her, but I think that talking to her might help her, and would at least be mature.

I'd be asking questions like:

"What do you feel about the abortions you had?"
"What if you were in the same situation today?"
"Tell me more about your faith?"

People change as their lives change. My mum is now pro-abortion, and she experienced a huge amount of trauma in her life. People judging her, hating her life choices - those things never did a damn thing to change her. Being shown patience, understanding and tolerance did.

(I work with rehabbing extremists, so I know that it's not a simple thing to do, but it really does alarm me that as a society we write off people for the smallest of differences - which wildly flies in the face of improving social relations)

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 10/07/2022 12:00

I wouldn't be friends with someone like that. Tbf I don't want to associate with anyone anti choice, who believes women shouldn't have bodily autonomy.

girlfriend44 · 10/07/2022 12:03

thecatsthecats · 10/07/2022 11:59

I do find it concerning that as a society we're losing our ability to talk about things we disagree about.

I'm not saying that you have to stay friends with her, but I think that talking to her might help her, and would at least be mature.

I'd be asking questions like:

"What do you feel about the abortions you had?"
"What if you were in the same situation today?"
"Tell me more about your faith?"

People change as their lives change. My mum is now pro-abortion, and she experienced a huge amount of trauma in her life. People judging her, hating her life choices - those things never did a damn thing to change her. Being shown patience, understanding and tolerance did.

(I work with rehabbing extremists, so I know that it's not a simple thing to do, but it really does alarm me that as a society we write off people for the smallest of differences - which wildly flies in the face of improving social relations)

Why do we need to get into any heavy conversations with friends. We tend to have a laugh when we go out.

I've never got into anything heavy and indeed with friends. Keep it light. Tell a joke as I said.

Chikapu · 10/07/2022 12:10

If you've asked her not to bring it up already and she ignores that then what's the point in trying to engage with her? I'd give up on the friendship and let her preach to someone else, yes she's entitled to her opinions but you're also entitled not to hear them.

Quia · 10/07/2022 12:16

bagpuss90 · 10/07/2022 11:57

She does hold quite extreme views about other things. I mean she believes we are in the “end days” on Earth as written in the bible 🤷‍♀️

Bin her off. Unless she sees sense, conversations with her are just going to become ever more irrational and infuriating.

SpilltheTea · 10/07/2022 12:25

I couldn't be friends with an anti-choice, hypocritical, preaching nutcase. She's entitled to her opinions, but she doesn't need to go on and on about them when she knows you don't agree and you find it upsetting.

pointythings · 10/07/2022 13:03

I think if someone doesn't respect your red lines then the relationship isn't worth saving. I co-facilitate a support group for relatives of people with substance misuse issues. My co-facilitator is very religious, very conservative, very old school, very right wing. I'm the polar opposite. But we like each other as people so we have just agreed that between us, certain topics are off the discussion list. We agree on the most important thing, which is providing the best possible support for the people in our group.

KettrickenSmiled · 10/07/2022 13:11

I’ve told her I no longer wish to discuss it but she still airs her views.
Fuck her off, she's not your friend.

is that she’s had two abortions herself including a late one
It's not your job to analyse her complicated, possibly guilt-ridden feelings, or to have to call her out on her hypocrisy.
She can be as anti-abortion as she likes - for HER OWN WOMB. She doesn't get to opinionate on anybody else's.

I don’t want to break off our friendship but I’m struggling
I can't see why you want to retain her friendship, she's behaving as if she has the right to dictate other women's choices. So give h3r one last chance - next time she raises it, tell her you don't want to hear her nasty controlling views.
If she presses on regardless - get up & leave, or kick her out if she's at yours.

There is no tactful or ameliorating choice, with bullies.
She's bullying you - she knows damn well you don't want to discuss this with her, & forces you to listen anyway.
She'd like to bully other women out of the choice SHE MADE FOR HERSELF. She's a hypocritical scumbag, & you should feel free to tell her so as soon as you've had enough.

KettrickenSmiled · 10/07/2022 13:12

bagpuss90 · 10/07/2022 11:11

She’ become very religious -it’s tied up with that

So she can fuck off & take her controlling nightmare of a god with her.
Good riddance.

user1471447924 · 10/07/2022 13:14

She’d be a former friend so fast…

DoubleShotEspresso · 10/07/2022 13:14

You are friends.

Friends can remain so but still hold different opinions surely?

KettrickenSmiled · 10/07/2022 13:14

Flangelica · 10/07/2022 11:32

These comments are awful.

Of course she is entitled to her opinion! Just because she disagrees with you doesn't mean she can't have an opinion.

And just because she's had an abortion doesn't mean she can't be anti-abortion now. People change. Experiences change people. Perhaps she regrets her abortions so bitterly that it changed her mind about them.

Don't be her friend if you don't want to.

People can hold any opinion they choose.
I don't have to listen to it if I find it repugnant. Neither does OP.

Cornettoninja · 10/07/2022 13:15

She’s not your friend really is she? You don’t seem to like her views nor her yours.

it’s a great shame if you’ve had a long friendship but fundamentally you’re just not compatible if ‘agree to disagree’ isn’t working.

bluntly, your friendship is already over, it’s up to you when you can accept that as the reality.

beautyisthefaceisee · 10/07/2022 13:16

Is it the guilt?

My friend went a similar way and is now very critical of abortions.

KettrickenSmiled · 10/07/2022 13:18

SaltFlakes · 10/07/2022 11:51

This thread, and the number of 'no tories' in the dating non negotiables thread, really shows just how intolerant people on the left are.

I have plenty of friends with radically different views. Why should that stop a friendship? We just accept that the other holds 'unacceptable' views and move on.

OP's "friend" won't accept that though @SaltFlakes. She keeps forcing her opinions despite OP telling her that she doesn't want to hear them.

Tell me what's tolerant about that, or about forcing birth on a woman who does not want a baby?

KettrickenSmiled · 10/07/2022 13:20

thecatsthecats · 10/07/2022 11:59

I do find it concerning that as a society we're losing our ability to talk about things we disagree about.

I'm not saying that you have to stay friends with her, but I think that talking to her might help her, and would at least be mature.

I'd be asking questions like:

"What do you feel about the abortions you had?"
"What if you were in the same situation today?"
"Tell me more about your faith?"

People change as their lives change. My mum is now pro-abortion, and she experienced a huge amount of trauma in her life. People judging her, hating her life choices - those things never did a damn thing to change her. Being shown patience, understanding and tolerance did.

(I work with rehabbing extremists, so I know that it's not a simple thing to do, but it really does alarm me that as a society we write off people for the smallest of differences - which wildly flies in the face of improving social relations)

It's not a "small difference".

It's a gaping chasm of difference: the differentiator being a woman's right to control her own fertility & birth decisions. OP's friend believes women should be forced to give birth. She may as well live in Gilead.

najene · 10/07/2022 13:24

If it was my friend, I'd ask her to read Judith Jarvis Thomson, Defense of Abortion and tell me where she thinks Judith goes wrong.

Most likely she won't do that (especially given you describe her as something of a religious nut), but, still, give her a chance to remain your friend.

(JJT gives what I still think of as the best purely women's rights argument. It stands up really well against those who want to claim a foetus/embryo has rights, whether from conception or after some other point. So it's particularly germane for countering religious-based thoughts on abortion.)

KettrickenSmiled · 10/07/2022 13:25

Why do we need to get into any heavy conversations with friends. We tend to have a laugh when we go out.
It's not about "need" it's about "want".
I enjoy exploring the complex & interesting minds of my good friends. Hearing their opinions & experiences about all manner of topics.

I've never got into anything heavy and indeed with friends. Keep it light. Tell a joke as I said.
Sometimes we have lighthearted chat. Sometimes we spend the whole evening convulsed with laughter. But my friends have depths. I don't tend to get along well with shallow people, they bore me.

HTH @girlfriend44