How much of the success of a marriage depends on who you marry in the first place?

[iBouncedTheBall]

Inspired by another thread where people are talking about the secret to a happy marriage. And I see the usual compromise, respect, communication etc. But if one person cannot or will not give these kinds of things, then surely it doesn't matter how much respect you show the other or how much you compromise, or how well you communicate, you will never get that happy marriage?

I also see some people mention how the first marriage was terrible but the second is happy. And unless the poster has made some huge changes to who they are as a person (I assume this isn't the case), then it would appear the main factor contributing to their happiness the second time round must be the personality of their partner in comparison to the first person.

That's really the crux of the matter. OH and I were "together" for 10 years before marriage, that wasn't living together, it was basically very long term dating, going on holidays together, etc. I can honestly say we had no surprises at all when we finally got married and started living together in our first home. OH's behaviour/attitude didn't change one bit. It's easy looking back and saying we "could have" got married and/or lived together years earlier, but at the time neither of us were 100% certain and we're the kind of people to need a pretty high degree of certainty before making any decision - we're both definitely more of a "head" person than making decisions by feelings or heart.

We've been together for 35 years now and been through one hell of a lot of challenges including long term illnesses and deaths of parents, OH having incurable cancer, a premature baby in SCBU for several weeks, near bankruptcy, etc., but we work through it all together and 100% support each other.

My previous relationship lasted just 3 months - he was romantic (sang love songs to me that he'd written) and sex was great, but there were just far too many red flags re his behaviour and attitude and it was a massive wrench but I felt I had to end it as I couldn't trust him to be a good long term partner once the initial excitement faded away (which it always does). I know of him through friends and he's had a succession of failed relationships, children with different partners, etc., so it sounds I made the right decision on that one!

I do think people tend to do things far too quickly these days, i.e. having children together, buying/renting a house together, getting married, before they really "know" each other. There's one hell of a difference between romantic/sexual compatibility and the realities of being a parent/homeowner/spouse. I also think too many people put pressure on themselves to grab a partner because they're frightened of not having one, so basically they're grateful for anyone! I really cringe when I see colleagues/family moving in together or having children literally within months of first meeting - there's no way on Earth that they know enough about each other to cope with longer term commitments. (Except for the very rare exception of two "right" people meeting each other, which does occasionally happen). Too many people, women especially, expect/hope their partner will change when they're parents or get married, and all too often, that simply doesn't happen!

My parents got married in the 1970s when my dad got offered a job in Scotland for £1500 a year more than he was earning in London. My mum was at nursing college and training to be a midwife and the only way she could move from England to Scotland and move into second year without having to complete her first year again was if her husband changed jobs. They will celebrate 43 years married in August.

They showed us that marriage is about give and take, both being willing to compromise sometimes, mutual respect, willingness to communicate, shared goals and ideals and telling your partner when they are being stubborn. My parents marriage has had ups and downs but they discussed everything and found a way through.

In my very humble opinion, it's a total lottery. Luck and carefulness can weight the odds in your favour to some extent, but other than that, it's all in the lap of the gods. Humans are unpredictable creatures.

Well, of course, absolutely everything has an element of luck, whether it's a husband, a job, a career, health, friends, family, location, nepotism, etc etc.

But we all have the opportunity to reduce the impact of "luck" by putting ourselves in the best position possible to take advantage of whatever comes our way and mitigate the bad luck.

That's not to say to can 100% avoid bad "luck", it would be stupid to say that you can do things to avoid all of life's lemons that are thrown your way. But you can put yourself in a better position to bat them away.

It's not really down to luck, is it in terms of who you marry in the first place? It was when people got married at 21 and barely knew the person they were going to get married to.

Nowadays people live together and find out what someone is really like before they get married- for five years in our case. We knew each other extremely well before we got married. That's not to say that people don't grow apart or they may eventually split up, but you would at least know whether you are fundamentally compatible after living together for a good amount of time, and that the marriage will be successful probably for a long period if not forever.

About 100%

It definitely comes to down to both people.

And being married twice, with the 2nd lasting, meaning the 1st partner was in the wrong in some way, doesn't work for me.

You could be a horrrible person and the first person you married wouldn't put up with it, but the 2nd marriage is still going as their partner can't find it in them to leave or happy to put up with it.

A marriage is unlikely to be a happy one if either person can't be kind, respectful, thoughtful etc etc

As a PP said, while it's not always possible, ideally people have a lot more time to get to know people now and live with them first before getting tied down or tied into a marriage. So the luck element is reduced

Thank you. You said it so much better than I did! (Typing during a phone call probably isn’t the best idea).

I think a lot of times it boils down to the following:

1. Not having important conversations that are necessary to determine if your values/future plans align.
2. Ignoring red flags or your own wants/needs in order to keep the relationship

I'm always amazed when I see couples that have been together for years and yet haven't seriously discussed whether they want children, how they will raise their children, etc. Sometimes couples meet when they're young and they aren't necessarily looking for a serious relationship so their criteria is just someone that they get along with. They might be great at living together but find out too late that their opinions on the important things don't match up.

I also think a lot of women around my age (early 30s) suppress their own needs or ignore red flags because we have been told we are supposed to be relaxed and go with the flow. When I was dating my ex he would make a comment every now and then that would cause me to raise an eyebrow. The comments were few and far between and he came from quite a sheltered background so I thought he would change his opinion on these things. Unfortunately they were signs of things to come and how he expected a marriage to play out.

I think luck in finding the right partner, plays is big part in whether a marriage is successful. DH & I met at 17, married after 5 years, been married for 28 years now, always been happy, despite lots of life events that have caused us difficulty. We have always worked as a team to overcome challenges. I don’t think anyone thought our marriage would last, mainly due to us meeting so young.

Flexibility and a willingness to change are important too, IMO. Life will throw unexpected challenges and opportunities at you, and if you’re not willing to admit that your approach isn’t always the best one, there’ll be problems.

I’ve changed a lot since marrying 20 years ago and so has DH. He’s from a family that doesn’t talk about things and always acts as if everything is rosy; I’m from one that endlessly discusses and likes a good row! We’ve both had to change our communication styles.

We’re both had to venture out of our comfort zones and do things we don’t particularly want to for the other person’s sake and we strongly disagree on certain political issues. But we debate and have taught the children to debate. Essentially we respect each other and that’s the key. I wouldn’t recommend “settling,” I definitely didn’t settle with DH, he’s amazing. 😄

Personality is very important and a marriage shouldn't be 'hard work' either. If two people just click and both want the other one to be happy and there are no tantrums, etc then that's a good sign.

Sharing the same outlook and a fair amount of give and take on both sides is essential.

Absolutely! I don't see that as a bad thing though. A woman might choose to be childfree and single, married to a good man and have children or be married and childfree.

It is sad that women who do not marry men that are good fathers/partners pay a more significant price though, I do agree. I think there is an onus on women to pick a good partner more so than men. I don't think that women need to 'fix' a man if they make a good choice. Obviously you cannot forsee everything.

I realised the importance of picking a good partner when my poorly matched parents made my childhood a living hell. They love each other but their personalities did not work well together and they essentially lean on one another in a very unhealthy way. I decided that I would only date men that met certain criteria. It meant I never fell in love with someone that treated me badly.

Marry your soulmate! Worked for me.
I met DH my first night at uni. We moved in together 3 days later, living cramped in one single room in a hall of residence for two years. Married after 5 years, and were together right up to his untimely death 30 years ago. I still love and miss him. He was an absolute sweetheart.

It's about being realistic and not hanging around waiting for 'the one'. You take the first person who comes along. You assess their basic hygiene, background comparability and work out whether you could actually live with them without them driving you nuts. Then, if they meet the basic criteria, you snap them up. If you wait around too long, then you will only be left with the weird ones or the ones that have been booted out for various misdemeanours. And the longer that you leave it, the greater the likelihood that you will start to question whether you are also one of the weird ones!

I think it's a lot about your willingness to compromise and also when the pro's of a relationship outweigh the cons.

DH drives me mad sometimes and I often daydream about being single, however he has many good points and I'm not perfect myself. Also, I love him and feel that ultimately my life would be worse without him around (not just emotionally but financially too).

I think relationships end when the balance becomes too tipped towards the cons for one or both partners to manage it any more and the bad traits make you fall out of love with them.

@Babdoc

I'm not sure I'd you're being serious but i think there's somehting in this. It's probably what I did, although I wasn't aware of it at the time.

He was a good man, perfectly nice and easy to get along with. Not particularly passionate or exciting. We were together for 30 years until he died and he was a really lovely father and always there when any of us needed him.

There were times when I wondered if I was missing some excitement, but it was probably the right move overall. Friends who've had more "lively" relationships haven't, I don't think, been happier.

I think the success of second marriages is often about people having learnt from their mistakes.

I mean, not so much that the first partner was ”a mistake”, but that people realise that their own behaviour contributed to the split. So the second time, with luck, they have corrected their own mistakes.

He sounds lovely, Snowy. I’m sure you miss him.

@ohfook I’m exactly the same as you!

I remember reading an article where the author said ‘Don’t compromise at all on your choice of husband, but compromise a little every day after that.’ I reckon there’s probably quite a bit of wisdom in that.
DH and I can both be a complete PITA but we are a bloody good team and have helped each other grow and process a lot of our issues, with plenty of rows and disagreements along the way.

But I agree with you - if you don’t marry a good man or woman in the first place, there’s a limit to what the two of you will be able to achieve as a couple in terms of building a mutually nourishing, emotionally trusting and intimate relationship together.

My first relationship (20 odd years of it) was not a good one I was bullied abused hurt belittled and scared and I literally put up with it out of fear.
when it ended I was quite literally broken and my eldest son persuaded me to go with him to a political meeting that he was involved in, I stepped out of my comfort zone and into a very different world and I met an amazing man - my life changed completely and I just wish I could have lived this life with my 3 sons as children- I wasted those years putting up with less than I deserved.
im still the same me the difference is I’m with a good man that treats me nicely.

never settle for less than you’re worth, if you are in a bad relationship - get out of it because every day you put up with it is a day less of knowing your worth.

It's about being realistic and not hanging around waiting for 'the one'. You take the first person who comes along

I was 23 when I met DH. He certainly wasn't the first that came along and I spent six months being cross that I had met such a lovely bloke who was in love with me so early in my life and just trying to be mates with him (I also thought he probably just fancied me and had no idea of the depth of his feelings to start with) and had always imagined I'd spend a few years having fun with several more Mr Wrongs first. But then it turned out that I couldn't imagine life without him either, and that was it.