How much of the success of a marriage depends on who you marry in the first place?

[iBouncedTheBall]

Inspired by another thread where people are talking about the secret to a happy marriage. And I see the usual compromise, respect, communication etc. But if one person cannot or will not give these kinds of things, then surely it doesn't matter how much respect you show the other or how much you compromise, or how well you communicate, you will never get that happy marriage?

I also see some people mention how the first marriage was terrible but the second is happy. And unless the poster has made some huge changes to who they are as a person (I assume this isn't the case), then it would appear the main factor contributing to their happiness the second time round must be the personality of their partner in comparison to the first person.

Yeah if one person can’t communicate, won’t be respectful or want to contribute then it won’t work

I honestly believe that luck plays a huge part. Being lucky enough to find the person who is right for you.

Most of the things you listed at two way things. You can never have good communication in a relationship if one of you can't, there can't be meaningful two way compromise if one of you won't etc. They aren't singular characteristics. So of course the person you marry makes a difference.

The lack of communication in what feels like most other relationships is wild to me. Almost everyone I know holds things back from their other half, had done things the other doesn't know about etc. To me that's like building on sand and expecting it to withstand wind and rain.

You're definitely right.
I remember feeling so happy at my wedding, truly believing I had found 'the one'. Except, soon after, the act slipped and he became abusive.
I tried so hard to make everything ok but there was literally nothing I could have done. My marriage was not going to be happy.

Well yeah. If you marry someone who turns out to be a wanker then you're unlikely to be happily married.

I do think a lot of it turns out to be luck though. Having kids for example really tests a relationship and neither of you know how you'll cope or what type of parent you'll turn out to be. There are lots of threads from women on here who's husbands turn out to have some sort of personality transplant after kids and turn into sexist lazy men who wont listen or compromise.

Also statistically if you've been divorced before, you're more likely to get divorced again

Yes I am a terrible communicator. I literally shut down and I know I must be a nightmare to have a difference of opinion with. I'm not particularly articulate and I hate that when I do try to explain myself I struggle to get it across. I also used to have a real 'don't apologise/don't show weakness' attitude that I've tried really hard to shake off and I can't take perceived criticism at all. Essentially I'm a real delight to be married to!

We would've been divorced after the first argument if it wasn't for the fact that dh is a very good communicator. I feel like he's spent a lot of our marriage basically coaching me to get better at it. And I am better than I was but I'm still not great.

It's a hard mindset to describe almost like a burn it to the ground mentality. But at the start of our relationship we'd be in a disagreement and I just wouldn't be able to see a way out so I'd think well that's that then - this just isn't working. Then a sentence or two from dh could remind me that it was a small obstacle not the end of the road.

to answer your question: all of it

Shared goals are important. If one of you wants a comfortable life and understands you need to work to get it and the other one wants lots of children and a life on benefits that is never going to work. It doesn’t mean you both have to work but if your partner earns enough that you don’t have to then you have to understand and accept that sacrifices have to made. So yes who marry is important.

Yes, it is obviously very important to think long and hard about who you want to marry and spend the rest of your life with.

So many people just end up with someone because they accidentally had kids with them, without actually thinking whether they are a good lifelong spouse.

Well yes. But it’s about ensuring you only stay in a relationship that works.

How many threads are there here where an OP is bemoaning a terrible relationship where they’ve been treated pretty badly from early on?

That first argument - what if when he called you a cunt you left rather than made excuses? What about if when he says you were fat and said it was a joke you told him to jog on?

The people with the happy marriages I suspect have a good sense of self worth and are cognisant of what being treated well looks like and expect it.

So yes, it depends on who you marry but that in itself is no accident.

Yes. Marriage isn’t 50/50. Marriage is 100/100.

Choosing a life partner/husband and choosing whether or not to have children and the two single things that have the biggest impact on a woman’s life.

Pretty much all of it, imo. I think being single forever would be preferable to marrying the vast, vast majority of men. If a relationship is really hard work or doesn't genuinely enhance your life in pretty much every way, you've married unwisely imo.

Obviously leaving a long marriage can be very hard, even when it's abusive. I absolutely get that. What I honestly can't believe is the number of women who don't end relationships in the early or very early stages when the incompatibilities or even red flags start to appear. Surely there should be zero tolerance at that stage? If in doubt, dump.

I agree. The most important thing you can do to have a happy marriage is to marry the right person. If you marry the wrong person then no amount of work and commitment etc will work. For me the most important things to look for when dating are:

shared values
shared life goals
shared sense of humour
good communication skills
shared commitment to marriage

if you have all of those then your marriage has a very good chance. There will be hard times but in most cases you will pull through.

Well I think you should marry someone who is your best friend and who has more or less the same values, morals etc as you.

So many women marry a man just to have children or because they accidentally got pregnant. Neither a particularly good reason and the marriage is likely to fail.

I married someone who I love spending time with, who makes me laugh, who shares the same views on marriage, infidelity etc. I wanted to spend the whole of my life with him and 42 years later still feel exactly the same way

I think it's all about whether when you are both in a down place, do you make it worse, better or neither for each other.

I have friends who have an on again off again relationship because he shuts down and wants to be on his own in moments of crisis and she wants to talk and connect and they just drive each other mad.

My DH and I are both rational talkers, we talk for hours and hours especially in difficult times, I am sure it would drive some people mad but we work well together

“Also statistically if you've been divorced before, you're more likely to get divorced again”

I’m not sure what point you’re making there though?
People who are divorced may be:

• less likely to put up with shit


• more financially able to divorce (which is why they did first time)


• More likely to make sure they’re financially able to divorce after getting stuck first time


• less bothered by the process


• less likely to be in a second marriage to the father of their children which is a huge incentive to stay in a bad marriage

Correlation isn’t cause and effect!

I agree there are some people who are abusive and manage to hide it until after you marry them. But assuming (hoping!) that's a small percentage of people, surely most of the people you describe as bad partners (terrible at communicating, compromising etc) can and should be identified and weeded out at the dating stage? Rather than this coming as a surprise to you after marriage.

When I was younger someone told me that the most important decisions a woman ever makes are deciding whether to have children and deciding who to have them with - and to pick the father of my children very carefully.

At the time I thought it was old-fashioned, slightly misogynistic advice (putting the onus on women to fix male behaviour etc). But now I’m older and I’ve seen how my life and various friends’ lives have turned out, I think there’s unfortunately a lot of truth to it.

All of it, I should think.

Yes, as PPs have said - the key is a healthy sense of self-worth. The danger is when women (for some reason) think they must, must, must have a partner at all times, and accept rubbish. Work on your own aims and objectives, be they educational or career goals, or parenting. Show people that you have high standards and won't accept just anyone. Give yourself opportunities to meet like-minded partners in real life and be open-minded about this (don't get too hung up on a tick-list). I think an obsession with 'dates' is dangerous - just let friendships/relationships develop naturally for a while so that you get to know the person without too much pressure and unrealistic expectations.

And if you don't find someone it really is better to be on your own and in control of your life and finances, with high self-esteem, than putting up with being treated like rubbish by some horrible man. But so many women don't believe this.

My DH and I don’t have a perfect marriage but we’re both open to compromise and I do wonder how a marriage can work if the other person isn’t; when mums talk about how they never get a lie in for example I can’t ever envision having a partner who if I said let’s share this would then just say no.

Things happen that change people, and that changes the marriage.
I adored my DH, but when he wouldn’t address things in the marriage that would make our life better, like his MH/reliance on alcohol/penis problems then it changes what you had.
Now I assume ever he says is a lie and I’m resentful.

"Yeah if one person can’t communicate, won’t be respectful or want to contribute then it won’t work."

Indeed. So why marry them in the first place. I'm always shocked at mn women's 'poor' .... I don't know what poor it actually is: self-worth, lack of self-esteem, emotional intelligence to not recognise at the time that this person isn't actually a very good fit for them? I don't understand what makes all these my women marry such men in the first place.

@SparklingPeach
Has put what I just said, so much better:

"I agree there are some people who are abusive and manage to hide it until after you marry them. But assuming (hoping!) that's a small percentage of people, surely most of the people you describe as bad partners (terrible at communicating, compromising etc) can and should be identified and weeded out at the dating stage? Rather than this coming as a surprise to you after marriage."

If you haven't got the social skills to recognise that your partner isn't a very good communicator (or any other such basic need/fault) then maybe you shouldn't actually be getting married just yet, until you yourself address that?

Ex was and is very nice, but tends to exist in his bubble, not coping when life demands a bit extra.

With hindsight the signs were all there, but I was young and had no way to know.

Having disabled children broke the relationship for me. Ex carried on in his role of going out to work. He did more in terms of cooking, but parenting was very much down to me, including all the meetings and reams of paperwork that comes hand in hand with disabled children.

I gave up communicating. It became yet another responsibility, along with making sure he was happy. One day I cracked and couldn’t do it any more.

If I meet someone else I’d be far more picky about sharing a house with another adult. They’d have to be bloody special to be worth it!
That said I’m far happier on my own with no expectations that Ex will do any of the hard parenting.