How much of the success of a marriage depends on who you marry in the first place?

[iBouncedTheBall]

Inspired by another thread where people are talking about the secret to a happy marriage. And I see the usual compromise, respect, communication etc. But if one person cannot or will not give these kinds of things, then surely it doesn't matter how much respect you show the other or how much you compromise, or how well you communicate, you will never get that happy marriage?

I also see some people mention how the first marriage was terrible but the second is happy. And unless the poster has made some huge changes to who they are as a person (I assume this isn't the case), then it would appear the main factor contributing to their happiness the second time round must be the personality of their partner in comparison to the first person.

I suspect Ex and I are both autistic, only recognising it having been through the diagnosis process.
We are both shit at communicating, but neither of us knew it. We were just a normal young couple starting out our lives.
Had we not had such challenges with the dc we’d probably still be happily married in our way.

I think it also depends on what people expect from marriage or want or need marriage to be. If romcoms or porn were part of the idea of a relationship, people set themselves up for unmet expectations.

I was speaking to a colleague yesterday who is in her 50s and had an arranged marriage 30 years ago. Her idea of marriage is a partnership that has fairly defined roles and she felt she hit the jackpot. The whole romcom falling in love, butterflies, sweep me off my feet, prove everyday he loves me, grand gestures etc was never part of her idea of a marriage. She wanted someone who was a good partner, a good father, a good husband, and a good man and she got that. She says over the years they became best friends and that she would 100% do it again. She has a daughter in her 20s and she wishes she could do an arranged marriage for her (daughter has said no) as she sees her daughter wanting a fairytale and not finding it.

It was an interesting conversation. She is very happy in her marriage and talks about her husband a lot! I have no idea about more personal details as she is a coworker but it did make me think about how important a shared view of what marriage is all about is in compatibility.

I actually think the most successful marriage are between people who don't have particularly high expectations and have settled to some extent.

That's not to say anyone should put up with a horrible situation, but the whole soul mate, very passionate, being treated as a princess thing is impossible to maintain.

I suppose it depends on how you define a successful marriage and what you count as happiness. It's not just about picking the right person it's also about the type of person you are, your values, culture and resilience. There are people who are too stubborn to admit a failed marriage or too religious to divorce. There are people who believe keeping a promise is more important than feelings.
In my eyes a successful marriage is not where you are always lovey-dovey, making out like teenagers and happy 24/7. It's about commitment, companionship and respect.

This.

With your bit about what they were like before they had kids, I don't agree with. For most there were always signs. He was always off playing football on a Sunday. Woman always did the housework and didn't mind when it was just the two of them and she actually had the time to do it. I think too many people have kids knowing full well what their partners are like but hoping they Will change.

But only if you've been brought up to have decent boundaries and you've been taught to value yourself. Otherwise it's much harder.

Yes, if you marry someone who is never going to be faithful, trustworthy etc, it doesn't matter how much you try, it isn't going to work.

I married Ex in a flurry of love and wanting to have a stable life . I'd known him for years so it wasn't as if I didn't know him. But the little niggles which I'd swept under the carpet over the years, turned into big red flags as time went on. Reader, I divorced him !

I subsequently married DH, and I'd say that yes I went into it with my eyes very wide open. I married someone who I knew was very trustworthy and honest, and who I knew was totally in love with me . We've been married for 15 years and we are just as happy now as we were on day 1.

We aren't teaching young girls to be wary of the red flags:

3 posters have said there were flags, but they ignored them.

Inspired by another thread where people are talking about the secret to a happy marriage. And I see the usual compromise, respect, communication etc. But if one person cannot or will not give these kinds of things, then surely it doesn't matter how much respect you show the other or how much you compromise, or how well you communicate, you will never get that happy marriage?

When people talk about compromise, respect and communication as the secret to a happy marriage, they clearly mean from both people involved. I think that's pretty obvious, isn't it? I don't think anyone's suggesting it's all down to one partner.

Well, duh, of course it does.

I think now I'm far too set in my ways to get married again. I just don't want to compromise or communicate if something doesn't suit me. I wonder if people who marry older or on 2nd marriages have a higher/lower success rate based on knowing where their red lines are solidly. e.g. in my first marriage I wouldn't mind a cup or a plate left on the table vs the sink but truth be told if it happened again today it would be a deal breaker. Good thing is I realise all this about myself and cut my cloth accordingly.

I also wonder if it depends on how long you are together before getting married. We were together for 9 years before getting married. I think after that amount of time nothing new was going to come up that We didn’t already know about.

Might be flamed but I always believe that the red flags were there, people choose to ignore them. The failed marriages I know of, the friend has admitted that deep down they absolutely knew something wasn't right but chose to not challenge it. No one changes overnight, the little signs are always there and I do think you have these niggles or feelings but don't act on it. I do think being aware of boundaries and red flags are a major factor.

Yep. Being in love with someone is not enough. They have to be capable of an equitable 50:50 partnership over the long term. I married the 3rd person I fell in love with - massively relieved I never married the other two. I would have had a very different life...

I don't think it's just about who you marry. I'm divorced. Had 2 planned children with my exH, not accidental at all. We'd been together 10 years before the wedding. He wasn't abusive, hands on with the kids, worked, very domesticated.
But I changed. Over the course of 12/13 years I grew as a person and our shared goals, values etc didn't match up any more. We tried for a while to make it work before I decided to leave. It was the hardest decision I've ever had to make.
I'm due to get married this year to a man I've only been with a few years and also have a planned child with. We have our ups and downs but we're both putting the work in. He's an excellent communicator.
So yes probably some luck involved. Definitely a need for good communication and a mutual willingness to keep trying and understand the other person.

It's only anecdotal, but among my friends there have been a lot of very short marriages among people who previously lived together for a decade or so.

Yeah, it takes the effort of 2 people. 1 person can't keep a relationship going.

I also think half the time it's about being able to argue often but apologise quickly 🤣

I'm still sceptical. I know lots of women who would now say that they are in a happy marriage. We are all 54+ and they'd put up with stuff, during the early child years/their 30's, I wouldn't have been able to forgive. Having been widowed in my 30's in couple friendships group, a lot of those 'happily' married men tried their luck. It's your single female friends who you've got to ask, not the people in the marriage. I've worked in various customer facing jobs which meant that I had to be friendly and lost count of the amount of men who claimed only to be still married for the sake of the children. They are now in their 60's/70's and would claim they are happily married. I agree about respect and caring being important. That includes not watching your partner on the point of collapse with exhaustion during the baby years.

Yeah. I settled and married the wrong person. That was okay for a while. But not for life.

Obviously a lot depends on the person you marry but also on each partner's willingness to grow and communicate better. Some people are incapable of connecting at an intimate level and aren't willing to do the personal work necessary to improve things.

I don't think it does. Me and DH married 5 months after meeting (we did see each other every day from our first date though).

Quite a few friends married after being together a long time (between 6 and 12 years) and they are all divorced now

I also think there's a lot to be said about the married crowd who are essentially just married on paper i.e. there's no passion or love left in their relationship and thus are just existing in their current set up because the fallout would be worse when you take into account living circumstances, finances, children. My good friend's parents remained married till the youngest left home (25 years in total). In that time my friend's mother stayed home to raise the kids. In short when the divorce rolled around all her kids were now fully functioning adults and she was left with pretty much zilch. I think marriage can be such a huge gamble that if it goes wrong it can leave you with lifelong bitterness.

Indeed a friend of mine is going through a divorce in her late 30s with 2 dc under 10. She has no idea how she's going to make it work as a single parent but she'll have to cope somehow. The stress of it all means she's lost about 3 stone and is constantly in a state of stress. Of course there are marriages that work and blossom and all that but given the risk of the alternative it's a massive gamble.

There's a fucking massive amount of good advice in that.

I continually women I know struggling because of the person they chose to have children with.