To ask if you could stay friends with people committing benefit fraud/tax evasion?

[WanderingWildflower]

Out of curiosity. This situation really annoys me but equally they are nice people and it's none of my business.

So these friends of mine are a couple. She owns a house outright that was purchased using inheritance. They both live in it and have done for over a year. He has a mortgage on his own house, bought before they met, and rents it out to a mate.

She doesnt work (small kids) but claims UC, not declaring that her partner actually lives with her. Meanwhile his friend pays him his rent in cash.

So essentially they have fraudulently claimed UC, a full time wage plus untaxed rental income coming in and no housing costs.

I suppose with the cost of living crisis it gets to me a little that we are having to tighten out belts a lot while they live the high life tax free/fraudulently.

I'm not the sort to cut people out but I'm so ethically opposed to people who do this that it sort of makes me question our friendship.

Could you stay friends in this situation?

Oh they have no kids together if that makes any difference!

Well boyfriends come and go don't they. By the time she's advised UC that he's moved in with her theres no guarantee they'd still be together so I can understand why people who move boyfriends in don't declare it. It's different if your married but this just sounds like a casual relationship to me.

Whenever this type of post appears I marvel at how much financial detail people have about their friends. I have no friends for whom I'd know this level of detail.
Also, dealing in cash can facilitate tax evasion, but it isn't proof of it.

I'd find it hard to ignore and still be friends. I think if they thought this was okay we'd probably disagree on other fundamental things and not be friends anyway.
Having said that, I don't think I would know that much about a person's finances unless I was close to them.

No, I couldn’t stay friends with them. My oh’s salary is taxed at 40% over a certain amount, yet we have 3 children and I work p/t around his hours, so for me this kind of thing gets very personal. As a household we pay a very disproportionate amount of tax. People like this often end up with a disposable income greater than ours. So I couldn’t stay friends with people like that.

How do you know she is claiming as a single person not a couple
How do you know there is no tax paid on the rental income

@DenholmElliot1 they've been together 2 years and live together though so I certainly wouldn't call it casual.

No I couldn't be friends with someone like that because our values and morals would be too far apart.

So how long has he actually been living there? Maybe they've joined finances and claim UC as a couple

I wouldn't involve myself in any of their private, financial details. If they're nice friends, I would just be friends.

I'd warn your friend about disclosing all her business to you.

No, and I’d report them for it too.

I am happy for my taxes to support people in need, not for them to be taken fraudulently.

Report them then.

Is she also claiming single person discount? Report them

BIL and SIL did this. He was working abroad earning 7k a month. She was claiming housing benefit and single parent allowance.

They put down a very hefty deposit on a house for 500,000 euros and bought a brand new BMW a few weeks later. Who said crime doesn't pay.

Yes, why could you not stay friends?
Because you are jealous they have sore money?

They have made the choice to take stupid risks that could land them in jail, I don't see how the stress is worth it but I wouldn't fall out with someone over it, it's not personal.
And before someone starts, it's really NOT personal, the government rob us blind on the daily.

You are clearly a very high earning income household if you pay that much "disproportionate " tax though.

Why are you taking it personally, someone on benefits, even if they are scamming a few extra quid, is nowhere near living your standard of lifestyle

How is the government robbing you?

You sound jealous of their income rather than morally opposed to their methods of gaining it 🤷‍♀️ Says as much about you as it does about them.

I don’t think I’d know or want to know my friends financial ins and outs so it would never arise as a question for me.

I have heard one or two dodgy dealings along the way, all of them made sense to me in the context they were done, i.e. food bank or no food bank.

This! I don't share this level of financial detail with anyone!

It is disproportionate in comparison to other households where both adults have f/t wages under a certain threshold- we pay more tax by thousands, yet a similar household income.

The tax thing, the scamming, people working cash in hand (many self employed high earners do this too) renting houses they own to family members who receive benefits to pay the “rent” etc etc, the fraud of it, I find it personal- lots of tax payers do 🤷🏼‍♀️

@Annoyingkidsmusic but why are you not angry at the government instead of the individual?

There is a rarely a benefit cheat rolling in cash is there.

The organised criminal ones maybe but the average "scammer" is just making a few extra quid in a broken and massively unfair system

TBH it's none of your business and you could be coming the the wrong conclusion about your friends finances.....
-If you friend isn't working and has small children she is entitled to claim UC, she won't get any housing benefit as she owns her home outright and she will still have all of her other bills to pay just like everybody else. She might have a joint claim with her partner living there and they are still under the threshold so are entitled to UC
-your friends partner renting his home out for 'cash' he is still liable to pay the council tax and mortgage for that property and potentially other bills, he could be getting peanuts in rent from his friend..... and if the house is not 'technically' rented out, your friends partner will still be classed as living there

I personally think people take far too much interest in other peoples lives. It seems to me that your a little jealous

Attitudes like yours are why we should look at providing people with food and accommodation directly, rather than money. There seems to be an entire underclass now who have no issue with stealing from the state.