To ask if you could stay friends with people committing benefit fraud/tax evasion?

[WanderingWildflower]

Out of curiosity. This situation really annoys me but equally they are nice people and it's none of my business.

So these friends of mine are a couple. She owns a house outright that was purchased using inheritance. They both live in it and have done for over a year. He has a mortgage on his own house, bought before they met, and rents it out to a mate.

She doesnt work (small kids) but claims UC, not declaring that her partner actually lives with her. Meanwhile his friend pays him his rent in cash.

So essentially they have fraudulently claimed UC, a full time wage plus untaxed rental income coming in and no housing costs.

I suppose with the cost of living crisis it gets to me a little that we are having to tighten out belts a lot while they live the high life tax free/fraudulently.

I'm not the sort to cut people out but I'm so ethically opposed to people who do this that it sort of makes me question our friendship.

Could you stay friends in this situation?

No I wouldn’t be friends with someone in that situation because they are going out of their way to steal money that they aren’t entitled to from the taxpayer. People like that deserve to be reported.

Someone not declaring a little side income could be classed as tax evasion, but that wouldn’t worry me as much. There is a difference between keeping your own money that you have legally earned even if some tax is due on it, and making the effort to put in a fraudulent claim and take money that other people have earned.

I don't know how I would feel about someone who was living an affluent lifestyle funded by benefit fraud. But I know plenty of people who have fiddled the system a bit (undeclared income from cash in hand work, boyfriend moved in but officially still living with his parents, etc) and it has never had any impact on our friendship. In every case they were just getting by.

This is a problem for single mothers, if a new partner moves in they often have to give up financial independence. So I’d have some sympathy for her. I’d also assume that the friend renting her boyfriend’s place is more like a lodger and they have a plausible explanation for it.

I couldn’t however remain friends with the poster above complaint about her DH paying 40% tax above a certain level and how terribly unfair it is. He pays that because he’s a higher rate taxpayer and a redistributive tax system is a good thing.

@FemmeNatal I'm not justifying it. It's very wrong.

I'm simply saying that there is such a huge divide that "stealing from the state" is going to happen until the welfare system is overhauled.

Dehumanising people who claim assistance because of a few fraudsters is not the answer

I could overlook a bit of minor benefit fraud (eg failing to inform of a change in circumstance that would lead to a small reduction in UC). I could not overlook major fraud or failure to declare rental income.

Tax evaders are prioritising their right to say "screw everyone else" over my right to half decent healthcare. That suggests they hate me, so I hate them back.

I couldn't give a shit. Benefit fraud and low level tax evasion is a drop in the ocean compared with the fuckery that happens with billion pound companies. When MP's pay tax properly and companies like Amazon and Boots pay full corporation tax, I'll start caring about Martin and Sue down the road who are getting an extra £60 a week more than they're entitled.

Absolutely this

No

Because

That wont pay their electric bills, or their gas bills, or their water bills or their phone, broadband (what if they work from home for example) bills

Because people don't just need accommodation and food. They need clothes, and sanitary products and cleaning products and deodorant, shampoo, soap

Because they might want to go to the cinema, or buy an ice cream, or have a day out, or buy a bike for their kid so they can get a job doing the paper round

Because children need books, and money for school trips and christmas and birthday treats and maybe some toys occasionally

Because the amount of benefit fraud is tiny and the costs of administrating this system would probably cost more than they would save

Because the cost of big corporations avoiding tax is far higher and thats who we should be targetting

Because companies should be paying their employees who work full time enough to live on so that nurses and carers shouldn't be having to claim benefits

Because she should treat people with respect and dignity and not assume they will cheat the system before they even have chance to prove they wont

Snap. There are people are who struggling to make ends meet and have to decide whether they have a shower or a meal. Disgusting humans.

Nope, I couldn’t stay friends with them - it’s thieving and I don’t care if ‘others do it more so a little bit is ok’.

@WeeOrcadian but that's not going to change whether someone else needs to choose between a shower or meal is it?

The point is NOONE should be needing to choose. The massively wealthy tax avoiders are the disgusting ones

Oh, and I’d report too.

No, I couldn't be friends with these people. Integrity is important to me and they appear to have none.

It's none of your business as you have said yourself.

They've lived together for over a year
You do casual relationships very differently to me 😂

I agree with those who'd report it. Benefits are for those in need. If she's honest about her position she'll get financial support if she needs it but if she doesn't allow them to make a fair assessment she's getting money that other people would be grateful for.

If someone is claiming all they are entitled to and working full time and they still don't have enough money to choose between a shower or eating (and lets face it plenty of people are in this position) then they are probably the people who are being forced to try to earn some money on the side to survive.... These are literally the same people.

I distanced myself from a friend when I found out she wasn't declaring money she was being given each month and therefore (possibly) getting more benefits than she should.
It's not the potential fraud that was the issue though. It was the telling me and other single mums we know that benefits were enough to live on if we just budgeted better. It's easy to budget when you've got more money!

Yes, I could.

What they're doing isn't even vaguely on par with all the billionaires tax evaders.

Also, the amount of people I know in a trade who accept cash in hand and don't declare it.. People always seem fine with this 🤔

This. If anything these sort of threads should be a reminder to people to not be so open about things that are not other people's business. I never discuss my financial set up with anybody.

The wealthy, even the ones that avoid some tax, are the ones who are propping the country up. They still pay a huge amount of tax, they will spend more in the economy and often provide employment. They make a big contribution to the system yet take out very little as they pay for their own healthcare and education. I can’t see what’s disgusting about that.

A family freind I know, claims full pip and ESA with a motability vehicle & all rent paid for decades now. They run scrap, house clearances, waste disposal and gardening businesses doing heavy lifting & manual work. No income is declared. The disabilities assessments were passed with the aid of a fraudster who knows the score & what to say. Recently they bought 3 other vehicles cash. They can't help bragging about it all, no need to pry! I wonder if Karma may prevail, probably not.

@ClocksGoingBackwards but that is because we have a society that promotes this set up.

The majority of people who are massively wealthy have been born into money and have had every privilege.
The misconception that they are somewhat more deserving and harder working.

The majority of those stuck in the benefit trap have no hope of ever being wealthy no matter what they do.

The whole set is unfair and disproportionate so yes, if you are fortunate enough to be massively wealthy then you are disgusting for not paying your tax.

Yes, it is called the Tory Party.

Well yes they make a massive contribution don't they.

28 of them have just resigned from the cabinet and our government has openly admitted today that because of the situation they are unable to make policy or govern. (yes, that was the quote).

So what exactly are these wealthy people getting paid for in the first place?