Am I really that bad? My sister was feeling a bit rubbish this morning so I messaged her back

[HacketteofHacks]

My DS is three years younger than me. As background she's divorced has older teenage children.
When we were little - our parents divorced - I was 7/8 and she can't really remember living with our DD.
Anyway as I grew up - I was the studious quiet one, not perfect but I basically blamed myself for my parent's divorce so grew up thinking I was a bad person somehow.
I think my family latched on to that.My sister who grew taller than me, did bully me - but I just go on with my school studies (I loved school and I played the flute). I ended up spending a lot of energy studying and did A levels and went to university. I did have a lot of friends who I'm friends with now (I'm in my early 50s).
Anyway my sister dropped out of her A levels and basically didn't work for a few years, although she didn't not work entirely my parents had a pub and she earned money that way. Living in the pub.
I think she still resents me,. I have tried so hard with her. When she was pregnant with her youngest I was still single - in fact I had just split up with the BF who I later got back together and married. We were at some party and she basically screamed at me in the toilet for being irresponsible and living a free life. I say that but I was doing really well in my career and saving up to buy a home.
Fast forward today. I have two DC myself 10 and 13. Am married - bought my house (we had help from in laws but I had £50k worth of debt a few years which I paid off so we could we could get a mortgage).
I get a WhatsApp from my sister saying she's fed up of worrying about money and her health. Now she's been told a few times to lose weight by her GP, she's got a fatty liver. She also still rents (although my DH and I were thinking about taking out a loan to help her get on the property ladder - she's 49 and she has got a good job that to be honest nowadays they would insist on a degree but she's bright).
I say 'oh for goodness sake, you are always coming back to this'. I tell her 'pick one thing and try and do something today that makes you feel better'.
She did have help from the GP to lose weight and went on a liquid diet but lost some weight then gave it up.
So she starts messaging me back ' you're saying I'm bad'. I said 'no I just want to help' 'I've been there'.
I then get messages telling me I'm toxic and I don't support her. She's called her GP in tears and said the only help she gets is from our mum and that I've been mean to her...
Now surely doesn't she realise that she's projected all her own personal woes on to me - who has - maybe clumsily - only tried to help.
Surely if someone in your family goes on and on for years about the same problems but does nothing about it.. Wouldn't you feel you have to say something?
My mother then ploughed in and told me I'm judgemental and toxic too.
When I went to university every holiday I would get told by my family I was up myself and thought I was better than them.
I don't think this but how can I move my family forward.
Or am I bad?

It’s not your job to “move your family forward” and the fact that you think it is, is probably where the friction is coming from. Constantly offering suggestions of help basically boil down to ‘here is where I think you are failing and I think I have the answer’. People don’t like it all the time because it comes as always being told that you think you’re better than them.

Only they can “move themselves forward”. And there’s nothing - nothing - that says they have to or should. Those are your standards talking. Not necessarily theirs.

Your family sounds resentful and they've found you an easy target to blame. I'd distance yourself, don't get a loan for her. It's not up to you to solve her problems.

I think you do sound judgemental, sorry.
You've compared yourself to her throughout your post. You didn't have to, could have just said "my sister always complains about her health/ money and I responded X AIBU"

They are nightmares. She's blaming you for her health issues and blaming you because you've studied hard and it's resulted in a well paying job. That's not toxic, it's called looking after yourself. She had the same opportunities as you. Stop making excuses for her and your dm

Firstly,well done on all your achievements.You cannot fix your sister, she’s needing to initiate changes,it’s up to her to take steps toward change. It isn’t your fault that she’s unhappy and stuck. People can and do initiate and manage change,she can too.
she May need to see gp for a mental health consultation and health advice
change her diet and exercise to maintain better health

do not give her money or enter into a loan or guarantor type arrangement
money won’t fix this and it’ll cause resentment

if you want to, buy her some gym gear to get the exercise regime started

Moaners need to be clear then.
Hi, I need a shoulder to cry on.
Or Hi, I need advice.

People aren't bloody mind readers!

They are brutal but not nightmares? OK then. You crack on.

how can I move my family forward
Why do you
Think they need to move forward
That it's your problem to move them
Think that your need to move them forward overrides their need to do whatever.

Can you just distance yourself, dont be as available, make soothing noises but not try to fix anything.
It appears your fed up trying to fix what doesn't want or need fixing.
Or your family are drama llamas, either way some distance is required, then maybe soon you will feel no need to fix them.

how can I move my family forward

You can't. They enjoy their wallow too much. You might still want them in your life, but have to reset expectations about what you can get, or do in those relationships.

Lots of people, as MN show, are more interested in what they want to hear than any hard truths !!

Your sister sounds like she just wants to be a " victim" and doesn't actually want to sort her life out!

I agree with CosmopolitanPlease that your response, true though it may be, was not why your DS called you and I can see why it came across to her as unhelpful and mean.

I can also see why you might not want to be the listening post your DS was looking for. It’s boring and tedious to listen to people going on and on about the same issues year after year and not doing anything to change their lives.

You ask how you can help your family move on with their lives and I think this may be, to some extent, the crux of the problem - it’s just not your job to decide that they ought to be “moving on”. You need to simply accept them as they are and tailor your interaction to that. Don’t take out a lone for your sister. Don’t make suggestions to any of them about how to do things more like you unless they come to you with a very different attitude, obviously actually curious about how you’ve managed to do it. Not simply asking as part of a moan about how they aren’t as lucky etc.

Stop being as invested in making their lives “better”. If you don’t want to listen to them moan then be a bit less available and don’t get involved in their problems. Just nod along and make sympathetic noises but don’t think about how they could make it better. Don’t offer help that isn’t superficial (because you’ll resent it when they reject it and still moan or accept it and then squander it). Just let them be who they are and get on with your own life.

Sounds like you've all (including your mum) developed a family dynamic where your sister's problems are yours to solve, perhaps because you're the older sister and the more together one. Did you look after her a lot when you were both little? Why do you feel it's your role to lend her money to buy a house?

Obviously you can't solve her weight problem for her and I suspect your frustration at her moaning stemmed from this- it feels like she's presenting her money and health issues to you for you to deal with, but the only person who can do it is her.

I would just disengage. Resist any urge to do things for her (this might feel hard) or advise her on anything. Just easy-breezy responses eg "that sounds tough". DO NOT LEND HER ANY MONEY. She is nearly 50.

This

It sounds like you look down on her.

This dynamic is a bit unhealthy and fits the drama triangle model. Your sister feels she is a victim, you have tried to rescue her which has possibly tipped you into the persecutor role because it is very frustrating listening to the same passive moaning over and over.

Participants switch from role to role, motivated by unresolved issues. It's not your job to fix your family and you need to step back, possibly look at any feelings of guilt you may be carrying for doing so well after a difficult childhood. Well done BTW.

Unfortunately unless your family get into therapy themselves they are unlikely to realise what's going on and will continue to try to put you in your place.

This is not your circus, nor your monkeys. Let them sort themselves out if they really want to.

Simple message: you can't "move your family forward" - you're just one cog in the mechanism.

I agree with what others have said already. Don't offer advice, she's had plenty and if she's not willing to act on it, nothing you say now will make a difference.

Don't be dragged into the drama, as you have your own life, your own successes to celebrate and struggles to deal with.

And don't, don't, don't, under any circumstances, lend her money. It won't improve the relationship.

Not going into details but there are sibling issues in my family and I've had some therapy as well. I've learned you can't change things by wishing they were different, and your primary responsibility has to be to yourself.

Best of luck.

Yeah, you gave her the guy's response.
You gave practical steps to help her solve her problems. She actually wanted sympathy and to hear someone was on her side at a tough time.
If you want to be a good sister, give her what she wants (but not the money, that's just going to lead to more misery).

Your response wasn’t unreasonable, but any message which includes “oh for goodness sake” is not going to be received well.

The mantra which I find helpful is “Not my circus: not my monkeys” (to be repeated to oneself, not put in a text, obvs)

Play it down.
I had a useless DSis that my DM embroiled everyone in 'helping'. When I finally stepped back and only sympathised, agreed, oh dear-ed. She seemed to sort herself out, up to a point, and our relationship improved. But DM had passed away by then.

Your sister and your mother both sound a pain in the arse to be honest, if your sister asks you for your opinion and then gets arsey because she doesn’t like it then that’s her problem, you are not responsible for your sisters problems, she created them herself and as for your mother having a go at you then let her listen to her and deal with her whining, don’t loan her money because she’ll have another excuse to moan, if your mother’s that bothered let her get a loan, I might sound harsh but I’ve experienced the same thing, I’ve stopped worrying about it, get on with your life because her problems are not of your making.

You're suffering from Responsible Older Sister Syndrome, where you feel you have responsibility for your younger sibling(s). I know because I have it too. I have a tendency to feel guilty if things go well in my life but not in my sister's.

It's quite common in older siblings, particularly girls. Birth order can have a major effect when shaping character. Older children are often under pressure to be the responsible ones and take care of their younger siblings.

You're both adults. Your sister is responsible for her own life. You can help out when necessary, but don't let her blame you for the things that don't work out for her. I'd suggest you have a few therapy sessions to help establish your boundaries and relieve you of the burden of responsibility for her.

I agree with this. You come across as a practical person who offers good advice on how to sort out a problem and wants to help, but she doesn't want this. She just wants sympathy, someone to moan at and someone to blame which you do appear to have found exasperating. Whatever you do, she is unlikely to thank you. I'd recommend taking a big step backwards and go low contact with her. You can't change her or her life choices, only she can and it looks as though she doesn't wish to bother. Do not lend her money as she will accept it but hate taking it from you and it will make her resent you even more.
Sympathetic noises only from now on and not rushing to contact her so often.
Keep your money for your DC as they will need it.

100 percent this!!!

Don’t take out a loan for her. If she moans just say a few sympathetic non sentences and don’t have much to do with them. She wants to be the victim rather than sorting herself out then let her crack on

Sometimes when people rant, they just want sympathy and someone to say "it sucks, I get it". They don't want advice and
practicality.

Most people know that to improve their situations, they need to do x, y and z - they don't need to be told that. But sometimes doing x, y and z feels too overwhelming right now, so they just want someone to listen and say they understand.

I think you're just coming at it from two different angles. You don't really seem to understand why she doesn't just get therapy and sort her life out, and she doesn't understand why you don't have more sympathy for your sister.

Neither of you are wrong, just different.