Tax childless adults

[Acidburn]

Hi all

Just saw the below article on LBC news:

www.lbc.co.uk/news/childless-tax-birthrate-uk-cost-of-living-paul-morland/

AIBU to think that this insane?

Children are only children for a relatively short time, if you want a generation that you will interact with to be educated and relatively stable then taxes are required for the good of society.

I think many pay quite high tax amounts, without too much bother (if they are PAYE that is) although ask anyone on tax spectrum and they’d probably like to pay less as is human nature - bar the odd mner who’d apparently like to pay more ;

But if you pay the same rate whether you have dc or not at least there’s no distinction. I have dc and the thought of taxing those without more makes me mad. It’s far too unfair and I also don’t agree with the outcome that it’s pushing.

And I do want children but there’s no great outcome for me in terms of having it all. It’s going to be a pita to juggle everything or just lose my career. I can see why you’d not want to bother.

Surely if less are born less will live to old age and it’ll even out?

Looks like another attempt by a right-wing man to police women's bodies... He can fuck all the way off.

Women with my condition can technically have children (although due to a combination of things I can't.)

However, women with my condition often have 10+ miscarriages before they actually have a successful birth.

Can you imagine a law that encourages you to go through 10+ miscarriages? How barbaric is that.

Just some goady idiot putting forth a bonkers idea to generate self-publicity.

The obvious answer is immigration, but of course it’s not necessarily an ‘easy solution’ that is without its own issues.

It's not exactly popular is it?!

Ducksinthebath · Today 14:16
Arguably those without children are already paying for so many services they don’t use (maternity care, schools, nursery hours) that this really does add insult to injury.

I was thinking this too.

I also wonder about house prices- how can children be born if their parents cannot even afford a home? Foreign. Non resident buyers using houses and flats as investments, and multiple home owners should maybe be curbed. 000s need to be knocked off rents so people sell their extra homes.

How do other European countries provide more affordable nurseries?

Is the idea that people who otherwise wouldn't have children will do so to avoid paying extra tax, rather than to encourage people who already have DCs to have more and get more money?
Either way it's bonkers.

I medically can't have kids, what's your answer to that?

Punishing people who are already heavily punished by multiple recessions. Clearly thr birth rate raises when people have more money and it falls when they have less. Literally even the most stupid people know this so why doesn't whoever is suggesting this absurd idea?

In time areas of the globe will become inhabitable we may well welcome lower population growth to accommodate more people

I don't think anyone is saying lower population is a bad thing are they?

So in the 10 yrs between 2009 & 2019 population in the UK increased by 7% overall. However the number of 65s & older increased by 23%, around 2m more. And over 85s have green by 16%.

He suggested that in order to incentivise parenthood, a tax should be created to be put on those without children. The Oxford University demographer said: "This may seem unfair on those who can’t or won’t have children, but it recognises that we all rely on there being a next generation and that everyone should contribute to the cost of creating that generation." Mr Morland said the country should spend money collected from the childless tax to fix the UK's "broken, expensive early-years care system".

It seems that nearly everybody disagrees with his solution of a "childless tax" and there are many good reasons stated earlier in the thread. One I haven't seen mentioned is childhood death - "I'm sorry you child has died, but you're now going to have to pay the childless tax".

It is a bad solution - but I think the underlying problem is real. Countries where the birth rate is low do need to incentivise parenthood, and fix the broken, expensive early-years care system. The only way we can do this is through the tax and benefits system. Again many good suggestions have already been posted. Another one I would like to see is that mothers with very young children (say up to 4yo) should have their student loans frozen (with no interest added) or even have amounts credited to their loan account from the state.

I don't disagree and it's why I, before having my own DC, didn't grumble at paying taxes toward things like maternity care, education, CB and so on...

But I can't stand the 'having children is completely selfless and provides doctors for the childless' posts.

It's not selfless. You may not be wrong in that future generations are important which is why I think the majority of childless people aren't opposed to paying tax toward the things mentioned above because they appreciate it's a benefit to everyone that our young people are cared for and educated etc etc... But it's not a selfless act to become a parent, it's an entirely selfish one and to make out otherwise makes me cringe.

The article smacks of one of 'those' think tank ideas that gets peddled to gauge public opinion.

It'll disappear very quickly.

I think he's just out to make people talk about the issue of the growing aging population.

Perhaps we could connect this to another topic that was on mumsnet and euthanise the over 80s to cut the aging population.

I don’t know where you got that impression from. I don’t regret it for a second. But I would be lying if I didn’t say I would be financially much, much better off without them. I would be working full time in a better paying job and I wouldn’t have spent £50k on nursery fees over 3 years.

grown by 16%.

An average 85 yr old costs the NHS 5.6 times more than a 30 yr old & a 65 yr old twice as much.

The impact of this is stalling life expectancy as pension ages increases. Like I said we are going to have to pay a lot more tax or get less care & grow old in poverty.

What a ridiculous idea. Fucking morons. I’m so fed up with people being so stupid.

Do we start paying at 18 and only stop when we give birth? Whilst we also demonise single parents? Do I get all my money back if I have a baby at 42? What age does the tax stop and how does that work given people have children at totally different ages and so would pay for different periods.

Do I pay less because I have a job that I couldn’t possibly have if I had had children earlier and the consequence of that is that I pay an absolute fuck tonne of tax every year. I also get zero child benefit for the child I do now have, because I’m very well paid, because I didn’t have kids until gone 40.

People without children already overpay tax comparatively because they take less out of the system.

How are they dealing with step children and people who don’t have children because they take on their partner’s kids.

So stupid.

@Queenoftheashes and add to that the unpaid child maintenance (around half a billion owed to mums in UK), so definitely a man's problem!

A better incentive would be to provide somewhere for youngsters to live. If you cant find/afford anywhere without kids you will have no chance with kids. More housing needs to be built and priority given to current residents of the uk. My kids are graduates in professional jobs and they still cant get anywhere

Oh wow I hadn't even considered the dead child scenario, I assumed that it would be taxed until you had a child regardless.

It would be a conundrum for the forced birth brigade though wont it who also want to control women's bodies. Life beings at conception unless we want to tax you for it.

I couldn't have children but have paid tax since the age of 17 for the whole of society and often for many services I will never need to access, but that's the point of tax. Why the hell are we demonising groups in society and why are we not looking at where what we are already spending is going. Care for all groups should never be about profit! The assumption that children will benefit us in the future is based on what? Surely it depends on the adult the child grows in to? Lazy journalism and I could say that we should tax stupidity in society, as that would make us a bloody fortune given what is being spouted as 'wisdom' currently from so many!

Jycclops It is a bad solution - but I think the underlying problem is real. Countries where the birth rate is low do need to incentivise parenthood, and fix the broken, expensive early-years care system. The only way we can do this is through the tax and benefits system.

Hardly. The biggest reported problem in recent years seems to be a dearth of men wanting to settle down in committed relationships with women who are of child bearing age.

Exactly this.