Pride doesn’t represent me

[Vegansausageroll]

Just been watching Joe Lycett’s big pride party.
It was all sexualised smut. It’s ‘furries’ , kink, drag, sex and innuendos galore. This isn’t all what pride is about! It’s supposed to be about our sexuality and our rights and not being ashamed of who we are. But there is no representation for young people like I was! I want people to be themselves and express themselves but it all just seems so extreme now!

I’m a middle aged gay woman. I like books and countryside walks!

I am very worried about equal rights and the way they are, once again, under threat.
I have nothing in common with the people that now dominate ‘pride’. The last woman’s group I went to has long been shut down, as have the lesbian groups I used to attend back in the day. I’m worried gay youth are being sent a message that their sexuality must be linked to a certain type of ‘lifestyle’ when many of us just want to live a regular life the same as our straight friends - the only difference is the sex of our partners 🤷‍♀️.

Well that might be why no one in your group has had the strength to speak out. They know they’ll get a short sharp shrift before possibly (probably) being ostracised

So frankly I don't recognise any of what you are describing but then I keep and open mind and actually allow myself to experience new things rather than stand in judgement...

Ds1 loves pride, it's a massive party for him and his friends.

But he has absolutely seen what other people are describing on this thread, his friendship group is very open and have no problem with the majority (though they do get a bit cheesed off with straight people 'pretending' they are 'queer')

I'm sure an open minded person like yourself can understand that different towns and cities will have different people doing different things

They would be told that they have every right to hold whatever beliefs and feelings they hold, but that our group is a welcoming and inclusive space for people that feel that 'lesbian' is the right identity for them, and we expect respectful behaviour from everyone and to everyone present

So you would tell them that pretend lesbians are more important to you than actual lesbians, and that the actual lesbians can fuck off while you pander to people with penises.
How.....inclusive of you.

Yeah well. Same old same old isn’t it. Women, know your place.

What's the point of a word that doesn't mean anything?

When some people in this conversation use the words "woman" and "lesbian", they're not actually specifying anyone.

My 82 year old friend is gay, he hates what Pride has become with a passion. He fought to be able to live a normal life with a partner of his choosing, he wanted the right to live a life without breaking the law or being discriminated against. He feels that he won the right to marry the love of his life, buy a home, go to work and have a holiday just like every straight couple he knew. He feels Pride is now a political weapon that is actually making life difficult for the many many gay couples in this country that just want to get on with life. He feels no need in his words" to prance about like a tart"

Indeed. Lesbian means a women who is sexually attracted to other women. It can't be anything else. It definitely does not mean a person with a penis attracted to women, no matter how much some people protest it does.

It's so depressing to see women literally erasing their own identities, and being proud to do so, and allowing their own group to be treated so badly.

@suggestionsplease1
If the word “lesbian” now includes males in the definition, what is the word for females who are exclusively attracted to other females?
How is them no longer having a word to define themselves, and no longer having the ability to organise, gather and meet NOT erasure when they had that exact right a mere ten years ago?

I have never seen so many gay women/ lesbians/ bisexual women/ queer women out and about enjoying themselves openly as I do at the moment!

Bars, clubs, pubs on the scene used to be majority male - often in the region of 90% male to 10% female a couple of decades ago. It is far, far more balanced now, those clubs that I am familiar with that used to have that ratio are probably 55% women to 45% men at the present time.

There has just been increasing identity, increasing visibility, not erasure.

Are you including all these male lesbians in your increased visibility of women on the gay scene?

Your username is brillliant!

The difference would be in the region of 1% if that helps?

When the word "woman" is meaningless, so is this.

How do you know? I thought transwomen were indistinguishable from women?

I think this thread is probably quite helpful for the majority of mumsnetters to see the extent of hostility that still exists towards minorities. People are really showing themselves up.

How? By asking you to define your terms so we can understand what you're saying?

I think it’s more helpful to show that gender ideology collapses under even the most gentle scrutiny.

You can choose to focus on definition, division, hostility towards those that don't fit your narrow terms if that's what floats your boat.

Meanwhile I and the vast majority of lesbians I know will focus on creating a warm, supportive and inclusive atmosphere for people who face social exclusion in much of their lives and enjoying each other's company.

If the word “lesbian” now includes males in its definition, what is the word for females who are exclusively attracted to other females? Why are they no longer permitted to define themselves?

How can an oppressed group advocate for themselves if all the meanings of the words used to define themselves have been changed?

The problem, though, is that words have to have definitions and be exclusionary if they are to mean anything.

A dog is not a cat. I can bring my cat to Crufts and whine about "narrow terms" when it isn't accepted in the competition but that doesn't actually mean I'm in the right, or inclusive, or open minded, or anything else I might flatter myself that I am. It actually means that "dog" is now meaningless and dogs are now losing opportunities to cats, while people like you cheer the "inclusivity".

Given that women exist as a distinct sex class separate to men, and the world does seem to know the difference just fine when it wants to, we need a word to define us. If you find that "narrow", take it up with God. You can be any gender, any colour, any sexuality, any character. It just defines you as an adult female without reducing you to body parts.

As Simon Fanshawe has said, when he marched for his rights, he wasn't demanding to be called straight.

Yes the lesbian erasure and hostility towards women is shocking. I’m glad you agree. And the homophobia of station a lesbian is anything but a female homosexual, and that males can be lesbians. Thankyou for standing up for lesbians against those makes who want to redefine the word to mean anyone.

Where’s your evidence that this happens to gay or trans people more than to women, Eyeroll? Women are statistically many times more likely to suffer violence (sexual or not), including murder, than to inflict it. That’s here and abroad.

In the UK gay rights have been achieved, and trans ‘rights’, eg to use women’s spaces, obviously undermine women’s rights.

Yup.

What weird logic and speculation again! It seems to be becoming the norm.

Um, no.

All lesbians capable of interacting with other group members in a non-hostile way (which is pretty much everyone, actually, who knew?) are very welcome.