Pride doesn’t represent me

[Vegansausageroll]

Just been watching Joe Lycett’s big pride party.
It was all sexualised smut. It’s ‘furries’ , kink, drag, sex and innuendos galore. This isn’t all what pride is about! It’s supposed to be about our sexuality and our rights and not being ashamed of who we are. But there is no representation for young people like I was! I want people to be themselves and express themselves but it all just seems so extreme now!

I’m a middle aged gay woman. I like books and countryside walks!

I am very worried about equal rights and the way they are, once again, under threat.
I have nothing in common with the people that now dominate ‘pride’. The last woman’s group I went to has long been shut down, as have the lesbian groups I used to attend back in the day. I’m worried gay youth are being sent a message that their sexuality must be linked to a certain type of ‘lifestyle’ when many of us just want to live a regular life the same as our straight friends - the only difference is the sex of our partners 🤷‍♀️.

Suggestionsplease1 you say Bars, clubs, pubs on the scene used to be majority male - often in the region of 90% male to 10% female a couple of decades ago. It is far, far more balanced now, those clubs that I am familiar with that used to have that ratio are probably 55% women to 45% men at the present time.

How do you know what the male-female ratio is? You said earlier on this thread that you welcome male people, transwomen, into your lesbians group and count all the members as women.

So a number of that 55% will be male, and we know transmen are a much smaller group so they’re not adding much to the number of men, and it’s clear from this thread that lesbians (female humans attracted to other female humans) are keeping away because they’re accused of transphobia.

So if a lesbian took umbrage at males being in a group for female homosexuals you would support her, and make it a female only group? Or do you include male lesbians in your groups?

What weird logic and speculation again! It seems to be becoming the norm.

What, like the logic that "woman" and "lesbian" should no longer have any meaning? If males are women and male people attracted to female people are lesbians, what does it mean? And if you're going to use the "female identity" thing, you'll need to tell us what that means too. How does one "feel" like a woman?

The only reasons you were able to give your "1%" figure upthread were because a) you made it up and b) it relies on knowing the difference between women and transwomen, which you and we all do. But when asked to define the difference you've literally just spoken about, you get angry and accuse people of being "narrow" or having "weird logic". You're simply not fooling anyone, not even yourself.

If you'd just use the terms "woman" and "transwoman" for what they mean, you wouldn't have to keep up this absurdity. Why don't you?

Actually transmen appear to be outnumbering transwomen on the scene presently.

Are you wanting to propose a sort of compulsory genital exposure to try to get accurate figures? How prurient. What a weird focus some people have.

Are you wanting to propose a sort of compulsory genital exposure to try to get accurate figures? How prurient. What a weird focus some people have.

are you seriously saying that people can’t tell what Sex people are just by looking at them? If so, how can you say that the numbers of women on the scene are increasing? How can you tell?

I suspect that if any were to read this far they would be looking at the screen asking themselves what the hell happened that a lesbian is here telling other lesbians that they are doing the gay thing wrong?

That is once they have worked out that yes you are saying that men who identify as women, specifically as lesbian women, get more of your acceptance, compassion and support (and lesbian sex) than women, lesbian or otherwise!

A topsy turvy world you are building... and insisting we all live in!

Are you wanting to propose a sort of compulsory genital exposure

Did anyone else's bingo dabber just smack the paper hard then? I may have broken the knib on mine 😳

Are you wanting to propose a sort of compulsory genital exposure to try to get accurate figures?

How did you ascertain how many more women are visible on the scene now?

I think most sensible people reading can tell what is happening here, for example the continuing mischaracterisation that you are the latest to participate in.

No.

I read interviews with Marsha while he was still alive. He was very adamant that he was a gay man who was also a drag queen.

the continuing mischaracterisation that you are the latest to participate in.

Tell me how I mischaracterised your previous posts.

Because, as far as I can see, I have merely reframed what you have posted.

Transwomen are, in your group, according to you in sexual relationships with 'other lesbians' and any female member of the group who demurs would be told to 'be nice'. Because all people who identify as lesbians are welcome.

You did say all of that!

And how does suggestionsplease1 know which members of their group are trans lesbians and which are real lesbians? If it wasn’t for accurately determining their sex, presumably they must have declared their sex on some form of application, which seems unlikely. Or perhaps there was a sharing discussion at a meeting once, which also seems unlikely. Or perhaps suggestionsplease1 knows it’s perfectly possible to sex people without inspecting genitals.

Yes. Marsha was she - a drag queen.

Malcolm Michaels Jr. was a gay man, a gay rights activist, and a founding member of the Gay Liberation Front and co-founded the radical activist group Street Transvestite Action Revolutionaries (S.T.A.R.) with Sylvia Rivera.

He was always clear he was not present when the riots began.

The Institute that bears his drag persona name was started on 2019 by a transwoman who was 8 years old when Michaels died. Another who coopted the name and spreads the disinformation about what actually happened.

What happens when all the people who actually knew Michaels are dead. Will his life be utterly traduced by the need for lies to prop up the transgender ideology?

FFS!

One of the key activists in the stonewall riots was Marsha P Johnson. Without trans women we may never have had gay pride events. Please respect the roots of pride.

How many times do we have to say it?

Marsha P. Johnson was NOT A TRANSWOMAN.

Educate yourself @Eyerollrsi : here's Fred Sargeant on this: he was there.

As are men. And you are calling lesbians who don't want men in a lesbian group "hostile".

Yet you somehow think you are being inclusive! By including people who are not the demographic of the group and excluding those that are. And you think my logic is weird?

Cop yourself on.

Rad Fem politics are a slur on pride.

And further education @Eyerollrsi

In my experience and knowledge (involved in Women's Liberation movement since the late 1970s) lesbian rad fems and lesbian separatists were drivers in gay liberation, and the changing of legislation and attitudes in the 70s and 80s (including the opposition to Section 28), when many of the legislative gains towards equality for women, and homosexual people (men & women) were made.

Your lesbophobia is showing, as is your ignorance of gay & lesbian history.

the continuing mischaracterisation that you are the latest to participate in.

Lectures on mischaracterisation from someone who includes males in womanhood and lesbianism.

YANBU - Joe Lycett's the Boris Johnson of the 'comedy' world.

You said "a lesbian is here telling other lesbians that they are doing the gay thing wrong" - I presume this was about me?

When have I said that anyone is 'doing the gay thing wrong'? I have simply said that hostile behaviour towards others in our group would not be welcome. Are you therefore implying that hostile behaviour to others is the right way to 'do the gay thing'? Weird. And certainly not part of my world thank goodness.

"Transwomen are, in your group, according to you in sexual relationships with 'other lesbians' and any female member of the group who demurs would be told to 'be nice'. Because all people who identify as lesbians are welcome."

Why on earth would any third party feel that have any right to 'demur' about another couple's consenting relationship? What a strange world you must inhabit if you feel entitled to go around questioning adult consensual relationships.

So are you a biological female lesbian or a trans lesbian, @suggestionsplease1 ?

Oh good God, just STOP. Everyone who's reading can see fine well that she didn't say anything attacking consensual adult relationships. She asked about how male-female couples can be lesbians, and what your response would be to a woman who didn't want male people at an event for lesbians. The question, in effect, was: would she be excluded because she doesn't think male people can be lesbians?

The constant "how strange" refrain is like Dolores Umbridge's affected coughing. It doesn’t do anything to hide the fact that you're ignoring half the questions and rewriting the other ones into things people never said.

What a strange world you must inhabit if you feel entitled to go around questioning adult consensual relationships.

Ah! I see.

So I either see that males can be lesbians and that the lexicon has been updated to accommodate said male lesbians or I am a prurient intruder.

Got it!

I'm very bored of the gaslighting.

Everyone knows a lesbian is a female homosexual.

Anyone including males with special identities in that definition is homophobic.