To find it utterly chilling that Tory MP Danny Kruger has said that he doesn’t believe women should have absolute right of bodily autonomy?

[AngeloMysterioso]

During a House of Commons debate yesterday Danny Kruger, MP for Devizes said-

“I recognise the degree of distress and concern felt by many members in the house on the supreme courts decision… I probably disagree with most members who’ve spoken so far about this question.

“They think that women have an absolute right to bodily autonomy in this matter, whereas I think that in the case of abortion, that right is qualified by the fact that another body is involved.

“But we can disagree on that question, and I offer to other members who are trying to talk me down, that this is a proper topic for political debate, and my point to the front bench, is I don’t understand why we are lecturing the United States on a judgement to return the power of decision over this political question to the states, to democratic decision makers, rather than leaving it in the hands of the courts.”

(underlining is my own emphasis)

Telegraph - Women do not have ‘absolute right of bodily autonomy’, says Tory MP Danny Kruger

Daily Mail - Prue Leith's religious Tory MP son Danny Kruger says he doesn't agree that 'women have an absolute right to bodily autonomy' in debate over US abortion ban - and British MPs should not 'lecture' US over their democratic process

Evening Standard - “Women ‘don’t have an absolute right to bodily autonomy’, says Tory MP Danny Kruger”

Spectator- “In defence of Danny Kruger”

AIBU to think this is rather terrifying, in light of what’s just taken place in the US and the fact that, with BJ’s Tory leadership hanging in the balance there are rabid pro-lifers like Jacob Rees Mogg ready to take his place?

You're in the minority, yes.

Foetus, not child.

It's a big minority though @notokaywiththetropes - and when it comes to late term DIY abortion I'm bot sure it's a minority at all.

Personally I dont think any woman should have to stay pregnant if she doesn't want to but I don't think that comes with an automatic right to kill the unborn child, beyond a certain gestation.

Please stop with the emotive language. Abort, not kill. Foetus not child,

I don't think many people want this person punished or imprisoned, at all.

Alright, then ....the automatic right to kill the foetus. Except when you give birth prematurely at 32 or 34 or 36 weeks it's a baby. And if you abort a fetus at 32 weeks you first stop it's heart so yes, killing it. You don't give birth to a live [insert appropriate term].

How do you know for sure?? I've seen so many of these protests where they pretend to be a pro choice protestor to make the pro choice side look bad. In my mum's home country for example, a group people came to a pro choice place with signs ''I LOVE BABY MURDER, ''I LOVE KILLING BABIES''. They were later exposed as a pro life group.

This is extremely chilling because of how many women nearly died and died because of an abortion law that took away their body autonomy.

Just a few weeks ago, another woman in abortion ban Poland died of miscarriage sepsis because doctors delayed care, waited till she is sick enough to help her/for the fetus to die to help her. This is what happens when women don't have body autonomy.

If it was up to him, a religious man, this would be happening here.

Full disclosure: I think abortion on demand should be a human right and that the limit should really be as late as necessary. But I do not get the difference between abortion at 10 weeks and 30 tbh. If you believe in abortion I think that you should really believe in it whenever from a logical POV. It's still a "baby". Why does that change at 24 weeks? Okay, the foetus might be viable outside of the womb, but that's not the situation, it's still in the mother, without whom it wouldn't exist. And I have kids, I've been pregnant. But no one should have to keep being pregnant if they don't want to be, at any stage. And it's just not as easy as "get it adopted"- people who say that have so clearly never dealt with the trauma surrounding adopted kids and parents and children where the mother clearly didn't want the baby.

It is a choice whether to have the injection or not.

Often when babies are very poorly, poorly enough that these conversations are taking place, the baby in question likely won't survive birth.

The injection is so that they don't suffer during the birthing process.

These are wanted, loved, named children with parents devastated beyond belief.

It's Danny Kruger, he's not exactly kept his victorian values a secret. Hopefully he never gets them into law.

It was widely written about at the time. E.g Heavily pregnant woman writes 'not yet a human' across her belly to protest Supreme Court's abortion decision - NZ Herald

'I LOVE BABY MURDER, ''I LOVE KILLING BABIES''. You have to be a very special kind of stupid not to realise that people with slogans like that are OBVIOUSLY pro-life. I think you seem very confused about this subject.

@Dazedandbemused0 No, you're not the only one, and @notokaywiththetropes is wrong. The majority of the country support our current abortion laws, which perform a careful balancing act, generally keeping the extremist positions on both sides at bay.

Can I ask a daft question?

If the absolute right to bodily autonomy meant that you could get an abortion at any point, up until term, why does the fetus have to be killed for that to happen?
I mean, obviously - if you terminate at 12 weeks that’s that (I am pro choice by the way)
But if a woman decides at say, 32 weeks that she no longer wants to be pregnant, why can’t she terminate the pregnancy but NOT the fetus if that makes sense? Have the fetus removed, alive?

I don’t understand the outrage because his comments reflect the legal position that abortion is restricted beyond a certain point (24 weeks). Equally a woman who is 39 weeks pregnant doesn’t have the right to punch her belly and harm a nearly full term baby. There are limits when a woman is pregnant because the unborn child has legally recognised rights. I think he worded this badly and people are reacting because he is a tory, but he’s not wrong.

This issue also isn’t about forcing women to give birth because once the foetus is a certain size then the outcome of taking abortion pills would be giving birth to a stillborn, as in that terrible case with the woman who is now in prison. The giving birth part was inevitable with a 34 week termination, and she chose to terminate the foetus anyway. Hard to get one’s head around that.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/should-the-legal-time-limit-to-have-an-abortion-change

This is an interesting survey. About half of respondents think 24 weeks is right, 21% think it should be lower than 24 weeks, 2% support a complete ban, 20ish% don't know. Only 10% want to raise the limit, and I think it's a reach to imagine that all of them would want to remove the limit entirely. I think people using the recent case to push for a complete removal of the limit are really out of touch with public sentiment (which is largely to keep the limit or even reduce it) and I suspect harming their own cause.

Lots of people don't believe in abortion. I wouldn't single out this chap.

I'm pro choice but believe in a legal cut off for abortion. That technically means I don't believe in full bodily autonomy for women.

This. It's terrifying.

Ok, well then she is just insane. How can you say why did you believe those people were serious when you have a crazy lady here doing something like this.

There are insane people in every group, in pro choice groups, there are people who want to ban contraception, ivf, believe rape victims who have abortions should be executed, and in states they protested life of mother exception.

My question is, why bring her up and late term abortions, when this post is about a man who wants to ban abortion from conception?

Sorry in *pro life groups. They protested birth control, ( the leader of one christian anti abortion group over there said it's the same as abortion ), and recently protested to get rid of life of mother exception, saying if she dies, it's god's will.

Daniel Rayne Kruger[3] MBE (born 23 October 1974)[4] is a British Conservative Party politician who has been the Member of Parliament (MP) for Gilead in Wiltshire since 2019.

How very appropriate.

Because she represents a pretty disgusting extreme pro-choice view point.

Because, whatever other views he holds or expresses, when Danny Kruger said:

“They think that women have an absolute right to bodily autonomy in this matter, whereas I think that in the case of abortion, that right is qualified by the fact that another body is involved."

He was voicing a similar opinion to the moderate majority in this country.

And when he says that this is a proper topic for political debate he was quite right.

You realise it's not true though, right?

Not confused. My cousin's friend had to carry, birth their baby and watch it suffer and die because in her country there is a time limit and doctors didn't want to risk it. In Ireland, even after it become legal, people still have to travel abroad to abort if they learn of a serious/fatal birth defect after 12 weeks. If this man was arguing for a time limit, that's one thing, but he supports America's complete abortion ban.

Just very upset and very anxious every time I see a post about a religious uk person person arguing for an abortion ban because of how many women are dying/nearly dying of miscarriage in countries where it's banned. I lost a loved one to pregnancy so it's very upsetting, sorry if I'm not reading right.

https://people.com/health/texas-woman-nearly-loses-her-life-after-doctors-cannot-legally-perform-abortion/

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/11/17/nobody-cared-about-her-life-family-of-polish-abortion-ban-victim-speak-out

@Mememeandmeagain not only are you not reading things correctly, you're confusing conversations about the UK with policies in other countries.

"If this man was arguing for a time limit, that's one thing, but he supports America's complete abortion ban."

What are you talking about? America hasn't completely banned abortion. There are some states where it's far easier to get an abortion than in the UK.

His position on abortion reflects the status quo in the UK.

Incredibly appropriate!

Also that the name 'Danny Kruger' sounds so similar to 'Dunning-Kruger', the effect where people of low ability in an area tend to overestimate their ability or knowledge in that area. Certainly applies to him!