To find it utterly chilling that Tory MP Danny Kruger has said that he doesn’t believe women should have absolute right of bodily autonomy?

[AngeloMysterioso]

During a House of Commons debate yesterday Danny Kruger, MP for Devizes said-

“I recognise the degree of distress and concern felt by many members in the house on the supreme courts decision… I probably disagree with most members who’ve spoken so far about this question.

“They think that women have an absolute right to bodily autonomy in this matter, whereas I think that in the case of abortion, that right is qualified by the fact that another body is involved.

“But we can disagree on that question, and I offer to other members who are trying to talk me down, that this is a proper topic for political debate, and my point to the front bench, is I don’t understand why we are lecturing the United States on a judgement to return the power of decision over this political question to the states, to democratic decision makers, rather than leaving it in the hands of the courts.”

(underlining is my own emphasis)

Telegraph - Women do not have ‘absolute right of bodily autonomy’, says Tory MP Danny Kruger

Daily Mail - Prue Leith's religious Tory MP son Danny Kruger says he doesn't agree that 'women have an absolute right to bodily autonomy' in debate over US abortion ban - and British MPs should not 'lecture' US over their democratic process

Evening Standard - “Women ‘don’t have an absolute right to bodily autonomy’, says Tory MP Danny Kruger”

Spectator- “In defence of Danny Kruger”

AIBU to think this is rather terrifying, in light of what’s just taken place in the US and the fact that, with BJ’s Tory leadership hanging in the balance there are rabid pro-lifers like Jacob Rees Mogg ready to take his place?

What he is saying reflects the current law regarding abortion: it is qualified. Women do not have completely free access to abortion on demand at any point during pregnancy. We may not agree with him but it’s hardly controversial.

Yes, this. An "absolute right to bodily autonomy" would mean abortion on demand up to term. We don't have that in Britain (or in any other country that I can think of) and there is no serious campaign for it. He's not stating anything remotely controversial.

I'm really quite cross at all the people sharing this and frothing about the Christian right. We are not America, we do not have a strong religious movement organising to curb abortion rights. However, we did have a legal attempt to limit a woman's ability to terminate a pregnancy due to foetal abnormality earlier this year. And that challenge had nothing to do with religion, it was alleging discrimination on the grounds of disability.

Anyone who feels strongly about abortion rights needs to focus in on that area, where women's rights in this country are actually at risk. It is, frankly, alarming how many British people with strong opinions about Roe v Wade were silent on that case.

Anyone who wants to be as useful as a chocolate teapot to women's rights can just carry on sharing this clip.

Unfortunately, he is my MP. I have sent him a message this morning. I will not vote for him.

I don't think the right is currently absolute in the UK is it? We allow abortion up to a certain point then there are much stricter rules for what happens after that.

This kind of stuff is making me feel so sad and low. It feels like we are actually going back in time with womens rights.

I'm actually speechless that anyone - in 2022 - thinks this way. Even a man! And he is Prue Leith's son?

I'm getting Handmaids vibes.

He's the new social covenant bastard who thinks that same-sex marriage is destroying families and women should stay at home and look after children. He thinks we are all just essentially baby-making machines.

Is his view so very outlandish? Don't most peoole think that foetus have rights? Hence we frown on and criticise women who drink, smoke or do drugs during pregnancy. I don't think it will be too long til that will be made illegal. Is it a huge leap to say that the child has the right not to be harmed in the womb to the child has a right to exist in the womb? I know women who have had abortions. None of them have had done it lightly but have given great thought to the fact that a future child is involved. Obviously, it's not the case that the rights of the mother and foetus are equal, because women can abort, but at the same time most women do consider that they are sharing their body with another being and do give consideration to that when making a decision. And at certain points in the pregnancy we do say that women lose the right to have an abortion for any grounds other than health so in certain conditions women do come second to the child.
Personally I'm pro choice, for a variety of reasons but I can understand people being morally opposed. I also know one women who had an abortion and because the distress over her decision continues to haunt her, she is now anti abortion. Should she have been aborted by her mother too because she no longer holds the view of the majority?

In a free society, people are entitled to their views, even if they are socially conservative evangelical Christians who disagree fundamentally with the current laws on abortion, same sex marriage etc etc.

Kruger is one back bench MP. He isn’t a member of the government and is an outlier even in his own party. The Tories are not the only party who have MPs who disagree with current laws on these issues. Tim Farron, the former Lib Dem leader got in a lot of trouble because of his beliefs that homosexuality is ‘sinful’. Ruth Kelly, a devout Catholic who was a cabinet minister in the last Labour government, refused to support her own party’s policies on these issues.

If enough of Kruger’s constituents disagree strongly enough with him they will elect a different MP at the next election. That’s democracy.

This is the law in this country and its a good law. A viable healthy baby nearing delivery should have rights.

Are you really speechless to hear of someone who does not support abortion on demand to term? If you disagree with him then it's your view that is very much the minority one (and, dare I say, the extremist one).

I support abortion on demand up to foetal viability at 24 weeks, and for specific reasons after that (health of mother, foetal abnormalities). Does my view also leave you speechless?

Roe v Wade only protected the right to an abortion before 24 weeks. It did not give women any absolute rights. Did that also leave you speechless?

Hence we frown on and criticise women who drink, smoke or do drugs during pregnancy. I don't think it will be too long til that will be made illegal

Over my dead body it will. I would be absolutely and vehemently opposed to that.

Firstly - Prue Leith is his mother? Prue Leith, known for participating in orgies? That Prue Leith?
Secondly - there are loads of openly anti-abortion MPs, not all are Tories. Prominent among them are the former Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt and former Health Minister Nadine “Mad Nads” Dorries.
Serially offensive misogynist Philip Davies is another - he’s my MP.

This MP has been open about his beliefs. There are so many more who think the same way. That’s why it’s important not to take our rights for granted. In 2019 there was a vote to bring access to abortion in Northern Ireland (where it was illegal) in line with the rest of the U.K. These MPs all voted against it. The list includes Charlie Elphicke who is no longer an MP (he was found guilty of three charges of sexual assault against two women.)

David Amess (Conservative – Southend West)
Steve Baker (Conservative – Wycombe)
Henry Bellingham (Conservative – North West Norfolk)
Paul Beresford (Conservative – Mole Valley)
Bob Blackman (Conservative – Harrow East)
Peter Bone (Conservative – Wellingborough)
Suella Braverman (Conservative – Fareham) (Proxy vote cast by Steve Baker)
Andrew Bridgen (Conservative – North West Leicestershire)
James Brokenshire (Conservative – Old Bexley and Sidcup)
Fiona Bruce (Conservative – Congleton)
Lisa Cameron (Scottish National Party – East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow)
Gregory Campbell (Democratic Unionist Party – East Londonderry)
James Cartlidge (Conservative – South Suffolk)
William Cash (Conservative – Stone)
Maria Caulfield (Conservative – Lewes)
Rehman Chishti (Conservative – Gillingham and Rainham)
Christopher Chope (Conservative – Christchurch)
Simon Clarke (Conservative – Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland)
Thérèse Coffey (Conservative – Suffolk Coastal)
Rosie Cooper (Labour – West Lancashire)
Robert Courts (Conservative – Witney)
Philip Davies (Conservative – Shipley)
David Davis (Conservative – Haltemprice and Howden)
Nigel Dodds (Democratic Unionist Party – Belfast North)
Michelle Donelan (Conservative – Chippenham)
Steve Double (Conservative – St Austell and Newquay)
Richard Drax (Conservative – South Dorset)
David Duguid (Conservative – Banff and Buchan)
Charlie Elphicke (Conservative – Dover)
George Eustice (Conservative – Camborne and Redruth)
Michael Fallon (Conservative – Sevenoaks)
Kevin Foster (Conservative – Torbay)
Mark Francois (Conservative – Rayleigh and Wickford)
Roger Gale (Conservative – North Thanet)
Paul Girvan (Democratic Unionist Party – South Antrim)
Robert Goodwill (Conservative – Scarborough and Whitby)
Peter Grant (Scottish National Party – Glenrothes)
James Gray (Conservative – North Wiltshire)
Chris Grayling (Conservative – Epsom and Ewell)
Chris Green (Conservative – Bolton West)
Damian Green (Conservative – Ashford)
Kirstene Hair (Conservative – Angus)
Mark Harper (Conservative – Forest of Dean)
John Hayes (Conservative – South Holland and The Deepings)
Lady Hermon (Independent – North Down)
Philip Hollobone (Conservative – Kettering)
Adam Holloway (Conservative – Gravesham)
Eddie Hughes (Conservative – Walsall North)
Ranil Jayawardena (Conservative – North East Hampshire)
Andrea Jenkyns (Conservative – Morley and Outwood)
Caroline Johnson (Conservative – Sleaford and North Hykeham)
Helen Jones (Labour – Warrington North)
David Jones (Conservative – Clwyd West)
Marcus Jones (Conservative – Nuneaton)
Mike Kane (Labour – Wythenshawe and Sale East)
Daniel Kawczynski (Conservative – Shrewsbury and Atcham)
Stephen Kerr (Conservative – Stirling)
Greg Knight (Conservative – East Yorkshire)
John Lamont (Conservative – Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk)
Pauline Latham (Conservative – Mid Derbyshire)
Jeremy Lefroy (Conservative – Stafford)
Edward Leigh (Conservative – Gainsborough)
Andrew Lewer (Conservative – Northampton South)
Ian Liddell-Grainger (Conservative – Bridgwater and West Somerset)
David Lidington (Conservative – Aylesbury)
Emma Little Pengelly (Democratic Unionist Party – Belfast South)
Jonathan Lord (Conservative – Woking)
Anne Main (Conservative – St Albans)
Rachael Maskell (Labour – York Central)
Paul Maynard (Conservative – Blackpool North and Cleveleys)
Nigel Mills (Conservative – Amber Valley)
Matthew Offord (Conservative – Hendon)
Ian Paisley (Democratic Unionist Party – North Antrim)
Owen Paterson (Conservative – North Shropshire)
Mike Penning (Conservative – Hemel Hempstead)
Stephen Pound (Labour – Ealing North)
Victoria Prentis (Conservative – Banbury)
Mark Prisk (Conservative – Hertford and Stortford)
Mark Pritchard (Conservative – The Wrekin)
Tom Pursglove (Conservative – Corby)
Dominic Raab (Conservative – Esher and Walton)
Jacob Rees-Mogg (Conservative – North East Somerset)
Laurence Robertson (Conservative – Tewkesbury)
Mary Robinson (Conservative – Cheadle)
Andrew Rosindell (Conservative – Romford)
Douglas Ross (Conservative – Moray)
Jim Shannon (Democratic Unionist Party – Strangford)
David Simpson (Democratic Unionist Party – Upper Bann)
John Stevenson (Conservative – Carlisle)
Gary Streeter (Conservative – South West Devon)
Desmond Swayne (Conservative – New Forest West)
Robert Syms (Conservative – Poole)
Derek Thomas (Conservative – St Ives)
Ross Thomson (Conservative – Aberdeen South)
Michael Tomlinson (Conservative – Mid Dorset and North Poole)
Martin Vickers (Conservative – Cleethorpes)
Heather Wheeler (Conservative – South Derbyshire)
John Whittingdale (Conservative – Maldon)
Bill Wiggin (Conservative – North Herefordshire)
Sammy Wilson (Democratic Unionist Party – East Antrim)

I think Prue Leith may be rather more well known for her decades of experience in cuisine rather than participating in orgies. 🙄

Rather a naive response given that Northern Ireland is part of the UK.

You've also got to remember that Gibraltar is a British Territory and until recently last year women could be imprisoned for life if they had an abortion. This is a territory in Europe that is attached to our country and had such a draconian law.

Both countries have sizeable parts of the population that would overturn the recent improvements to their laws in this respect.

Our rights to have autonomy over our own bodies are still reasonably tennous. There are plenty who would campaign to remove them. Never be complacent about what they might try to take away from us.

Women at present do not have the full right to bodily autonomy. So the debate has been had, and still needs to be had.
There is at present no right to abortion on on demand after 24 weeks, in England. So in the third trimester, a woman does not have full bodily autonomy. We can not abort a baby at, say 36 weeks without a clear medical reason.

Even broadly pro choice women might have a line in the sand somewhere, just as those who drafted today's laws did.

This guy presumably also has his line in the sand. Do we know if his line is any different from the one already in place? If it's the same line, then he's not said anything controversial. (Though with the caveat that I've not yet read all the links)

People used to smoke everywhere. I remember being in tears on a flight because the smell made me so sick. When California brought in smoking bans, I was shocked and never thought it would happen here. Now we take smoking bans for granted. If it's against the law to smoke in a car with a 17yo, is it that much of a stretch to ban smoking during pregnancy?

I'd have more respect for those with staunch pro life views if they came out with a desire to ban sex outside marriage. At least that would show that they gave some consideration to the status of women in all this, despite how misguided.

Our rights to have autonomy over our own bodies are still reasonably tennous. There are plenty who would campaign to remove them. Never be complacent about what they might try to take away from us

THIS. Like people on here casually talking about criminalising smoking while pregnant.

The list includes Charlie Elphicke who is no longer an MP (he was found guilty of three charges of sexual assault against two women.)

And David Amess who was murdered whilst working for his constituents

Hence we frown on and criticise women who drink, smoke or do drugs during pregnancy. I don't think it will be too long til that will be made illegal

I don't "frown" on women who do that. I cannot abide the sentiment that women should cease to become people once pregnant and that any behaviour deemed immoral by another person should be ceased. The idea that it would become illegal is abhorrent.

If you look at where his constituency is, I suspect they probably will 😔

That's me. It's not casual chat. 🙄 It's following a smoking ban to its natural conclusion.

The natural conclusion is that they ban cigarettes for everyone.

Not that they ban them just for pregnant woman. It's her body and she can smoke if she wants to.

99 MPs voted against making abortion legal in Northern Ireland including Rees Mogg, Raab, Braverman, Baker, Coffey and the usual DUP suspects.
These people have never been hiding.