Religious pondering Roe v. Wade

[LemonSwan]

So with the news from America being so heavily influenced by religion I have been doing some deep thinking.

So my thinking with some religious framing -

If god knows me, every unspoken word, every thought, every action I will take and the path of my life. And thus for everyone in the world.

Surely god would know in advance when he gives the gift of life to an embryo which would be aborted. So how is it against the will of god IYSWIM. Surely god would just not fertilise that egg if he didn’t wish for the embryo to be aborted.

I don’t want this to descend into pro choice vs. Anti abortion because that’s everywhere right now. This is more about people’s thoughts on the above.

And yes I know not everyone is religious so anything offensive re religion is not really where I am going with this. I am pondering philosophy of religion and insight into thought tracks of why religious people are so anti abortion if they trust in god knowing in advance all that will be.

If anyone wants to muse in with anything insightful I would be really interested.

@Topgub

I'm not an apologist, I'm sorry I lack the skills or vocabulary here! It makes sense (to me) because despite everything, humanity still has the overwhelming ability to be good, to help those in need, share resources and alleviate suffering. This world won't ever be perfect, there will be sickness and disaster, but we can all find it in ourselves to do better to make it better in our families and communities. We can come close to perfect. God knew that, He was and is hopeful, and so many across the world, religious or not, are working towards this. Initially of course, it's God, He knew there would need to be a Plan B, C. But he hoped there wouldn't be. And even still, that there would be, it would be worth is because he knows what depths of compassion and care we're capable of.

Thank you @AssignedSlytherinAtBirth
and, for what it's worth, I agree when you say what has happened is about control and about those in power. What I want to see from the States with the strictest abortion laws is an overhaul of healthcare policies, childcare subsidies, maternity and paternity leave, an end to capital punishment, heck I could go on. I think what has happened is scary, as both Liberal and Conservative states will be pushing extremes just to p*ss the other side off and gather votes from extremists.

@buntywindermere

What you should want to see is all of that and the removal of abortion laws

Numbers 5: 11-31 pretty much advocates priests forcing unfaithful women to abort their babies so I'm not sure where god stands on it. I'm pretty sure there's a quote in the bible about life beginning at first breath (not first heartbeat) but I can't find it.

I don't think religion has any place in law-making though because humans are fallible and can easily mistake their own will for that if God. I read a quote that resonated with me recently that said Jesus wasn't killed by heathens and atheists. He was killed by a powerful mix of religion and government.

Numbers 5:11-31

By Bible standards, that's not actually too fucked up. It can do much better.

I have a faith, and I support a woman’s right to choose, and absolutely believe safe abortion should be available to those that need it for whatever reason.

Its not because they are “Christian” that they have done this. It is because they are misogynists (and the rest of the bigotry).

@ohfook

I'm pretty sure there's a quote in the bible about life beginning at first breath (not first heartbeat) but I can't find it.

that’s crazy - a full term baby yet to be born is alive, is life.
by that definition they are not until they have actually been born but do you think women on here who an hour before giving birth would say their child is not alive?

Thanks everyone,

It has been insightful to hear others views.

To those posters who think I have some kind of agenda - I can confirm I am 100% pro choice but this wasn’t really about that.

I wrongly assumed predestination was a fundamental belief of Christianity and I found that confusing with regard to the anti abortion movement in America and was trying to understand more.

Thank you to those more knowledgable about Christianity and those of faith for sharing your beliefs and explaining your views to me. I really appreciate you taking the time to share.

Special thanks to @buntywindermere for a beautiful explanation of your beliefs. It explains a lot to me about the different stages in Christianity (for want of a better word) and has given me a lot to think about. I am so sorry about the loss of your baby and I really hope you are both reunited with one another.

And also very sorry @PrachtStück that your grandmother had those experiences from the very place you would expect would provide support and comfort when dealing with loss of loved ones.

I am going to leave the thread now because I really don’t want this going on and turning into some kind of bun fight. I couldn’t leave without writing a reply but unfortunately that will mean this gets bumped. If posters do continue to post please be respectful to others beliefs. I started this thread to kindly ask those religious to share and they have shared deeply personal things in good faith. I don’t think it’s a fair place to be vehemently anti religious. Please start your own thread if that’s what you wish to do.

Thanks again all

Apologies my last comment was to @Hoardasurass not prachtstuck.

Religion is the root of all evil.

insight into thought tracks of why religious people are so anti abortion

Mass generalisation there. Factually incorrect to just lump together every one of the World's population that has a faith.

Kite22 agree, the groups referred to on here are, by-and-large, those commonly referred to in the US as the "Christian right", in England this grouping have ties to some, but not all, evangelical Christian movements. There are many other religious groups who do not share these anti-choice, forced-birthing beliefs, a prime example is Rabbis for Repro who actively fight for abortion rights:

stljewishlight.org/news/world-news/more-than-1000-rabbis-for-repro-work-for-abortion-rights-their-fight-just-got-tougher/

God doesn't exist.

Real women do, with real bodies and minds.

As early as possible, as late as necessary ✌️

Is it really worth it to you to insult whole groups of people and their beliefs, when many of these people may be allies in the fight to maintain or as in the US restore abortion rights? I don’t have strong religious attachments but I don’t have a problem with respecting others’ beliefs as long as they don’t use them to restrict my rights.

The recent campaign in Ireland for abortion rights made connections and formed alliances across a wide range of social groupings including setting up things like ‘Grandfathers for Yes’ they made it clear that abortion rights weren’t a bizarre or strange thing to want/expect but actually something mainstream and reasonable that huge numbers of people support regardless of age, gender identity, and/or religious affiliations. They stressed inclusivity and solidarity.

In my 1st pregnancy, the scans showed him moving and I felt him kick. He had no lung development though and other organs were not fully developed and so the moment the cord was cut that was it. The only reason he was able to do that was because his heart (what there was of it), was beating and what small bit of brain he had controlled his reflex. I was literally a life support system for him and once that was turned off (the cord cut), he was gone. He never took a breath.

I believe in God. I attend church and study the Bible. I have faith. I believe God gave us free will to choose.

Men using their version of religion to control women is deeply wrong.

As early as possible, as late as necessary.