To think state schools should do more to push academic pupils?

[PickleM]

I've worked in both state and private schools. My observation with my own dc (in state schools) is that those who are very able academically could be given better opportunity to excel, but aren't. I see it as a great shame.

It seems like in order to tick the 'inclusive' box or help those who need more support, the children who are more capable aren't really given very challenging work.

An example would be that my dd is put in a very mixed ability group for maths and English. However, previously the class had different tables depending on level of work - those most able were given more challenging work. Those less able were given less challenging work. I've now been told by the teacher that this wasn't 'inclusive' enough for the slt. Apparently my dc is learning through 'coaching others'. I think she should give a higher level of work to those most able, I'm not interested in my dc 'coaching others' when she could be learning more complex work.

Private schools seem to have no issue with streaming children. Perhaps I've just been unlucky, ultimately it doesn't matter as I help my children learn at home, but what about capable children who don't have home support?

You really can't do this in most topics of STEM subjects.

@Valeriekat the evidence suggests that state school pupils do better at university because they have had to work much harder to get there and are better at independent learning. The study demonstrating this dates from 2015 but has not been refuted. I think everyone would like all state schools to be excellent. I would like private schools not to exist - my home country manages very well without them. But it isn't just about pushing academic pupils, it is about getting the best out of everyone.

I am 19 and only finished school in 2019. Throughout school I was very advanced academically, and although teachers gave me extra work, it was not challenging enough for me to further improve my skills. There were plenty of opportunities that could have been offered to me given a little bit of effort on the school’s part, but going to an academy in one of the poorest areas in the country, their efforts were centred around rehabilitating badly behaved students - overshadowing my skills and that of other top performing students. As a result, my GCSE grades were lower than expected. However, I don’t personally blame the teachers. They are constantly having to juggle various roles and not being paid enough to do so. I blame the school overall for ignoring academically gifted pupils simply because they were not causing problems. I would suggest talking to the school and asking them to push extra support and opportunities.

Academic achievement is not linear. Apart from a few brilliant outliers most DCs will experience peaks and troughs. Different DCs do better at different stages of education for a myriad of reasons relating both to the child him or herself and to their circumstances.

Furthermore certain types of exam suit some and not others. A level learning is a world apart from what is required at degree and post-graduate degree – someone can be, for example, not very good at revising for A levels but be a very good researcher when not under the artificial time pressures of an exam.

I doubt Imperial would let you in without Further a maths tbh. Certainly not for a maths based degree

@Sandcastles24

Phonics created a barrier between dd and the words.
So we took advice from here ,lots of research and went back to Peter and Jane books and flash cards for 100 high frequency word's.
Peter and Jane got her flow and confidence back.
Literally starting with ,Jane/Peter.
This is Peter and Jane.
This is Jane and Peter etc.

Within a few weeks only she had gone from stuttering sounding out,slowly trudging through to smoothly reading more advanced Peter and Jane.
Then we got a reading chest subscription and followed our school reading scheme and for her through the levels to where she should roughly be age wise.
This impacted her self esteem and of course being able to actually read means she was so much more engaged in the lesson's!!

She understands what she is reading and can verbally say it but with an actual written comprehension she still struggles.
She has two tutors who support her now and I'm hoping the foundations are now in .

She now instinctively knows how to pronounce harder words and doesn't need any sounding out at all.
We also followed different strategies for spelling a s again she now has an excellent instinct for harder words.

I was one of those people who just found the word's made sense one day when I was very young.
Had anyone tried to force phonics on me you would have taken a very early reader, and confused and delayed them.
I knew it all instinctively. I didn't need phonics. I struggled with other aspects of learning so being such a good reader was crucial to my self esteem.

Phonics has become a cult.

When I was at school we had four class types - basic, standard, advanced, and a2.

It was a good way of dividing classes so no one was left struggling or ignored.

I have dyscalculia so I took basic maths but was in a2 in my other classes. It was helpful to be in classes tailored to my starting point and abilities.

I agree, I had this problem particularly in Maths, in primary and lower secondary. Started to see the same in my kids and have chosen to go private.

Anyone looking at my grades at school would say there was nothing wrong (got all top grades including further maths, went to top uni, good career).

However - I did start to reach my limits with maths at uni, and perhaps I could have been a deeper mathematician if I had been stretched more, instead of being taught almost nothing from the age of 7-14.

When you are mathematical most of the concepts taught at primary are pretty obvious and natural once taught, and don’t require as much ‘bedding in’ as some of the primary teachers seem to think.

My theory is that certain countries are ‘better at maths’ because they stretch the brighter kids earlier. They prioritise nurturing some very competent skilled people - rather than prioritising raising the lower ability kids. Ideally we could do both!

@Summerwhereareyou thank you. That uis very interesting to hear about the different ways people's minds work. I bet you can speed read too

I'm not bothered about more able kids helping the less able (as long as it's in a way that benefits both parties and isn't just supplementing the teacher), but the problem I had at school was being used to assist in crowd control.

I was a quiet able kid and we had mixed ability classes in all subjects. Most of the lessons were completely derailed by the disruptive kids (who weren't all less able, but often it was those who weren't following and were bored and acting up instead), and the teachers would struggle to manage it whilst actually doing some teaching. The approach was basically sitting the quiet able kids next to the disruptive ones in the hope that we'd rub off on them. What ended up happening was that the disruptive ones would bully and humiliate us, and we'd lose our own interest in the subject or the learning itself.

What should have happened was more focus on the kids who weren't participating in the lesson to identify what help was needed (whether more explanation/support or more challenge). But that requires funding and proper classroom ratios and we all know that doesn't happen.

Too much of state schooling is just throwing the kids into childcare and hoping for the best, and I do agree with others that it leads to all kids being failed.

I knew before I even opened the thread that this would be a wonderful example of the "humble brag".