To agree with the Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe v Wade?

[thereareotherways]

Obviously I can predict the voting already! Ha.

TL;DR (at the top!): I support abortion but think Roe v Wade (and later cases) are not legally sound, and there are better ways to secure women's rights that would have more public support.

I'm personally not opposed to abortion in most real-life circumstances. I think after viability I would prefer other options to be explored, but I think most women having later-term abortions are doing it for serious medical reasons and I don't think that should be prosecuted. That said, I also am okay in principle with regulating abortion and I'm not an absolutist re: women's control: I think the fetus/baby does have some rights (which I weight proportionally more as the baby grows).

As I understand it, Roe v Wade and Casey rely on a right to "liberty" in the US constitution (primarily the 14th amendment), which otherwise doesn't mention abortion. I'm not a lawyer at all, I find this tenuous at best. Liberty has always had implied limits based on what's acceptable in society, and abortion was illegal until fairly recently. I don't think there's any justification for claiming that there's an implied consent of the people that abortion is morally acceptable - and the polarisation of the US on this issue reflects that.

I think the decision in Roe/Casey to impose abortion via activist judges was a poor decision both legally and politically. This is a clear case where elected representatives need to pass legislation that reflects their constituents' positions. If that legislation differs from state-to-state, well, that's the whole point of a federal system. Pro-choice candidates need to get elected in red states and then they will have the actual consent of the people, not tenuous implied consent.

The decision in Dobbs is here and good reading: www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/21pdf/19-1392_6j37.pdf

I also have a faint hope that now that this has been overturned, both Republicans and Democrats might now return their focus to legislation instead of Supreme Court nominees. The power of the Supreme Court is too dominating in US politics: we should be pleased to see them ceding some power back to the legislature, i.e., the people's representatives!

I'd like to ask anyone who supports women being forced to give birth how many of these unwanted babies they will be adopting and how much money they will be donating to support unwanted children.

Op you are talking rubbish. They have not overturned wade v roe in order to get women's rights in the legislation. What they have done is like getting rid of all gun controls as a precursor for implementing strict gun controls. It makes no logical sense. And will certainly result in huge suffering in the meantime

How old are you OP? You sound very young, uninformed and naive.

This WILL lead to deaths of many women, and abuse of countless others. It’s not an intellectual exercise for a high school debate club.

Are you.. drunk? Away with the sugar plum fairies? From planet Mars?

Now RvW is overturned the states will make their own decisions, which means women in the poorest states, with the worst welfare, healthcare and preschool provisions will be denied abortion, thus removing their agency over themselves and trapping them in a cycle of poverty.

But it’s nice you can have a jolly internal debate with yourself about whether abortion is including in the constitution and details about viability dates.

Nice that it’s given you something to while away the time on, and fuck the people who will actually be impacted by it, eh?

In the meantime, women are going to die. Not because they seek illegal abortions, but because they are pregnant when it is dangerous to their health. This isn’t just about choice. This is about healthcare. It’s about women who are on medication that keeps them healthy, but that can’t be prescribed during pregnancy. It’s about women whose bodies just can’t handle another pregnancy. It’s about women with very wanted pregnancies who find themselves faced with a medical crisis and the knowledge that there is no way to deliver a baby and if the pregnancy is not ended quickly her own life or future fertility will be at risk. Women can take every possible measure to prevent pregnancy and still find themselves in one of these situations.

This will not stop abortions, @thereareotherways - it will stop safe abortions. Women will have illegal, backstreet abortions and end up permanently damaged or dead.

It will also lead to more children being born with violent, abusive fathers, or into situations of great poverty.

One campaigner I saw on the news wants the family planning clinic he was protesting outside closed. So not only will women not have access to safe, legal abortions - they will also not have access to contraception - that will not help reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies.

In one way, though, you are right - there is another way. The USA could make contraception free and readily available to everyone - that would help reduce unwanted pregnancies.

What the actual hell have I just read😩

OP are you aware that in many states abortion will even be outlawed in the event of an ectopic pregnancy being diagnosed?

Ectopic pregnancy is the highest cause of maternal death in the first trimester...at 10-15% of the total.

In the majority of cases it would be entirely preventable by early termination.

This is not a change of legislation, it's a fucking death sentence.

The pro-lifer interviewed by the BBC just now demonstrating outside an abortion clinic in Alabama said that this only a partial victory and they won't stop until contraception has been banned. I really can't articulate how horrified I am.

Must be a nice place to be, up in your ivory tower of intellectual debates whilst not giving a damn about real peoples lives. I imagine its pretty similar to how some rich white men think about womens rights.

You really must have very little empathy and compassion to post this today.

It's so fucking frightening.

@thereareotherways Yes there are other ways and legalised abortion MUST be an option.

Your opinion is utterly horrifying for all American women. The woman must come first. Her body her choice. This judgement is an utter travesty.

I know already I'm gonna get flamed for this but abortion rights haven't really balanced the scale in terms of inequality in the way our forefathers had hoped it would.

In many cases women still carry the burden of having to choose between having a child and and financial security which is a travesty in this day and age.

Nevermind the emotional and physical scars left by having an abortion, it's a shit show.

Well banning it isn't going help any is it??

What everyone else has said...and I'd like to add...fuck off! I'm not often this rude...but seriously...just fuck off 🤦‍♀️🤬🤦‍♀️

You know they're planning to punish women for miscarriages, the guy in charge wants to dispute same sex relationships and gay marriage as a whole. This isn't just about abortion anymore, womens rights are going to slowly be taken away by a bunch of old people who won't even be around in 30 years. Period tracking apps give out data so if it tracks you've missed a period and then you go on a trip you may still be possibly charged. A woman shouldn't have to be traumatised to get a basic human right. Women in america could get life in prison for even having a miscarriage you are so incredibly privileged.

As a pregnant woman who can’t wait to meet her baby, I can’t fathom the idea of aborting her.

However, feeling this little life grow inside me makes me realise how horrific it would be to force a woman to have a baby that she does not want.

Looking at the likely state by state laws, most of them don’t even have allowances for victims of rape, or where the child will likely have a poor quality of life. I can’t imagine how desperate you would feel in that situation.

So how can removing these rights be a good thing?

I read on the news about how there’ll be loads more happy kids in little league etc - what a load of bollocks.

It’s women being forced to give birth to children they don’t want, and many of those children will suffer because of it.

To repeat an oft quoted point - Americans are happy to put the rights of an unborn child ahead of the mother, yet put the rights of gun owners above the rights of children to go to school without fear of being murdered.

A travesty for American women.

Only a cunt would agree with what America have done

yabvu…it’s a very bad day for women.

I live in the US. And I agree that this does not belong in the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court is made up of unelected judges, chosen by the president at the time one of them is replaced. It’s a job for life. Who are they to decide what happens to me or other women in this country? I didn’t vote for them. No one voted for them.

It’s right that this sort of thing belongs to the individual states. I vote for my state state legislature. The people are in control when it comes to who sits in the state house and senate. My state permits abortion up to fetal viability. If I don’t agree with that, I have my vote to express my dissatisfaction with it. And it my state women make up a greater proportion of the government than the national average and the Supreme Court. We even have a female speaker. So for matters that affect women, its better that the states have control rather than the Supreme Court which is currently 3/6 women/men.

there are better ways to secure women's rights that would have more public support

How much public support do you want? In a recent CNN poll, 66% of Americans did not want RvW to be overturned. They are 2:1 in favour of RvW.

In a recent Gallup poll, only 13% Americans think abortion should be illegal in all circumstances. 55% of Americans describe themselves as pro-choice, compared to 39% pro-life. This is not something that the majority of Americans want.

Agree with this

There are plenty of women who are eager to take away the rights of women.

I predict more hidden pregnancies and smothered babies 🙁

This.