How to deal with rude student?

[Teacher7676]

I chose to teach adults as I struggle with behaviour management of children, and now I just have small classes and very few issues.
I teach English as a foreign language and have one young woman (around early 20s) who is just quite rude.
Luckily I have only taught her once, but may have to teach her again in the future and plus it's a very small school.
In the lesson I had her she was whispering to another student (a male student she was flirting with). I think whispering is incredibly rude, and I'm pretty sure it was something about me.
They were also not listening to what I was saying.
She seems quite arrogant. I told her a rule in English, something about using the definite article, and she replied, "Sorry but you're incorrect." Even though I'm the native speaker.
When you walk past she doesn't smile or say hi, just has a look on her face as if she's better than you.
The male student she had been flirting with was in my class, he came into my lesson late and she walked past and let out a massive snigger, and he said "Why are you laughing?"
Just get a rude and bitchy vibe from her, but I don't feel in a position to "tell off" adults.
Nobody else is rude like that, we have some who are lazy and turn up 1 hour late etc. But they aren't sly.
Just feel uncomfortable about her and dreading having to teach her again, what would you do?

......omg you two its like a staffroom squabble over the photocopier....mirror mirror on the wall who is the best EFL teacher of us all.......

I haven't insinuated you don't know what you're talking about re grammar. I've said that current teaching practice avoids the teaching of grammar as grammar (rules) because it's ineffective, which of course you'll know.

My comment about making mistakes was about ME because yes, I missed out some commas. We all make mistakes. All of us. I also think it's far more likely for an inexperienced teacher to go for grammar rules because they feel "safe". It's also perfectly feasible that a TEFL teacher makes grammar mistakes.

Hope that clarifies the misconceptions. Everything else I stand by.

The best?
@pixie5121 obviously, do keep up.
You'd better watch out though, she'll be along to give you lines for not using apostrophes and capital letters now.

it is true we try to avoid talk of 'rules' because really there are no rules in English just patterns and precedents.

Listen obviously TEFL teachers often don't know grammar like their students do..that is why you should engage them in discussion or say 'that's a very good question lets talk about that tomorrow' and go home and bone up on it.

What do we know who were brought up with 'a verb is a doing word'? - way less than many people educated in Europe who may already be multilingual. What do you say the first time someone asks you 'is that verb transitive or intransitive'?

Many so called TEFL teachers have done the four week course and are carried away with the notion of themselves as smart 'native speakers' without even trying to learn another language themselves.

thats why its best to engage your students in sharing and discussion rather than presenting 'rules' that you might not be that certain of yourself.

@KarmelitaSpats that's just semantics. You could say that about any language, couldn't you? The point is the same - it's fine and necessary to teach rules/patterns/precedents when required.

Why do you think TEFL teachers 'obviously' don't know grammar like their students do? That's extremely offensive, and it's also untrue. I've had loads of colleagues who were excellent teachers and knew their stuff inside out. I never had to go home and 'bone up' about anything to be able to explain it.

A competent TEFL teacher should be able to answer a question about whether a verb is transitive or intransitive. It's really not that hard.

I can't speak for OP, but I'm Delta qualified, with a Master's in Linguistics focusing on second language acquisition. I'm fluent in four languages and speak another three reasonably well. Many of my colleagues were similarly educated and qualified.

We're not all unqualified and incompetent and working for cowboy employers.

well good for you, nor am I.
You are very defensive aren't you?
I have met plenty of TEFL teachers who don't have a clue but are still bleating about non existent rules as 'native speakers', while ignoring the often greater expertise of their students.
I wasn't looking for an argument just joining a discussion. You sound very aggressive.
Guess what i also have a Masters in applied Linguistics..so what?

LOL, where is the aggression?

It's not defensive to refute your statement that TEFL teachers are clueless and don't know any grammar.

What was your aim with that post? To insinuate that OP isn't a good teacher and a student knows better? That's not very nice, is it?

I think you’re taking this way, way too personally. If English isn’t her first language it takes aaaaages to get nuance right. And getting a ‘vibe’ from her means nothing.

You didn't 'refute' it by the way. Just saying.
And you do sound aggressive in most of your posts. It's your tone. You might want to work on that.
Now come along be realistic you know very well there are plenty of 'TEFL' teachers out there that need some guidance just as there are plenty that think they have nothing more to learn.
Many of them went through our school system at a time when grammar literally was not taught. They learnt what they could on the TEFL course and then learnt on the job or sometimes through further courses of study.
Some are better than others but you know very well it's not the high end of academia.
Some people i met in those crappy little private schools were jokers.....no need to take this personally it is not an attack on you, merely an observation.

...nor is it an attack on the OP.
anyone who is not prepared to reflect on how to improve their teaching and deepen their knowledge of the subject might as well not bother.

Oh, I absolutely agree that there are loads of crap TEFL teachers, yes. I'm well aware that there are those who do a four-week CELTA course and think they know it all. I just don't think it's fair to assume OP is one of them. It's not very kind or supportive and it still doesn't excuse the blatant rudeness of a student telling a teacher they're wrong.

I dislike how many people are basically gaslighting OP and insinuating it's her issue and the student is fine. I've taught students like the one she described. They seem to take a dislike to young, attractive female teachers and do their Mean Girls act. It doesn't matter how competent you are because they refuse to respect you or accept that you know what you're talking about. They're few and far between but when you end up with one, it's not pleasant.

OP posted to ask for advice and loads of people are just being really mean for no reason.

YANBU but I have no advice apart from some people put on a front for various reasons and you may find once you get to know her better she’ll let her guard down more.

I hate rude people and I would find it very difficult to teach adults.
I teach teens as although they can be rude they’re still children. I don’t know how I’d cope with adults.

But sometimes the issue is with the student. Sometimes the student is just not a nice person and is being a dick. How is the teacher 'reflecting' going to help with that?

I haven't gaslit anyone! Nor have i been 'unkind'. (oh please)
_
I suggested practical classroom management techniques that she could try before going on to speak more generally about how its often a mistake to talk about 'rules' to people who speak languages that really do have an academy with rules and often have a really good general education in grammar or might speak three languages already.

I have also taught rude biatches... isnt it just fun fun fun...?

I did an adult course a few years ago and a woman was behaving a bit inappropriately. They did kind of tell her off. When she went too far the course leader spoke to her privately and we didn't see her again so I assume she either left or was pushed out.

oh I know ...you need a supportive director of studies of course. without that you are f.ecked.

BUT ..BUT,,, OP did say that she stated a "rule" and got annoyed when the student disagreed with her. I mean no offence but that doesn't sound to me like good EFL practice. We all need to develop as teachers.

It's not incorrect to talk about 'rules' in English grammar.

You seem determined to miss the point of what anyone else is saying, trying to convince them they have said something different. almost like 'gaslighting' before going on to complain about people being 'unkind'.
Never mind.
Maybe link us to this list of 'rules' set in stone at some academy of the English language....
oh wait......

That's literally what you're doing! Missing the point and being pedantic!

You seem to be ridiculously hung up on the word 'rules'....why? You think there can't be grammar rules without the existence of an academy of the English language?

Who taught you that English has no grammar rules? What on earth are you teaching your students?

I taught adults for years, including EFL. Plenty of them were older than me.
Others were youngsters in their 20's.

You are the adult in charge. YOU set the tone and atmosphere in your classroom. Most adult students are well motivated to learn, or are working towards some qualification, and don't appreciate having their lesson disrupted by time wasters. If a student steps out of line, don't let it slide. Use their name and give a clear calm instruction. "Name, stop talking please. ".

I'm astonished that you tolerate students arriving up to an hour late and don't consider that rude.

Its a shame as there is scope here for an interesting discussion but i cannot be arsed to do that with someone like you who just wants to contradict and show off some superior knowledge before crying about 'gaslighting' and ;being kind'

Good luck with your TEFL in the future. Spain must be lovely....

You're the one being pedantic and saying ridiculous things like English doesn't have grammar rules. I love discussing things like this, but you're just being silly.

I'm not in Spain and I don't teach anymore.

OP has said the school let students in late. I imagine they'll go to reception and make an excuse and then OP will have to let them in. That's fairly common.

OP has said the school let students in late. I imagine they'll go to reception and make an excuse and then OP will have to let them in. That's fairly common

people use to always arrive late at our uni lecturer, there is no way they'd have being told to leave and the mgmt would not permit it.

@pixie5121 Your misogynistic comments are really inappropriate. You've belittled every poster here.

OP, I agree with others, "kill 'em with kindness"
Also agree with pp that her not saying hello and other behaviours you have to ignore.