To give up on Grade 7 applications (civil service)

[savebuckbeak]

I've been an SEO in a policy role in the CS for about 2 years and have been applying for Grade 7 roles for a few months now both internally through EOIs and externally. Had 2 unsuccessful interviews and just feeling very dejected. I've got mentors I work through stuff with, get involved in a lot of corporate/strategy stuff, have refined my behaviours examples hundreds of times, gotten advice on them, prepared strengths answers and generally done A LOT of career building stuff. In interviews I talk about leadership, strategy, work programmes I've led and delivered through others, how I've challenged and negotiated and convinced stakeholders to do x y z. Literally don't know what to do going forward and any nuggets of advice about any of this very welcome.

Rather than beat yourself up, can you get feedback as to why you weren't chosen? It might not be that you lack something.

Hi Don't give up! I'm sure you know that the step up from SEO and G7 is quite a considerable one and you are getting interviews so you demonstrating acceptable examples. Have you been getting feedback from the panel?

I am a civil servant and I certainly submitted a number of applications before I got to interview stage and then sat a number of interviews before getting the job. The best thing you can do is practice, practice, practice! It really is an art. I would also recommend sitting on interview panels as an SEO you should still be able to sit on GO recruitment campaigns. I found this invaluable as when I am preparing my examples I put myself in the interviewers chair and anticipate what they will ask and probe on.

Really hope this helps. Don't give up you will get there.

You have only been applying for a few months and want to give up after 2 unsuccessful interviews.

This is going to sound harsh but you come across as too focused on securing a G7 and not on the jobs you are applying for. ✅ corporate, ✅ career building ✅ competences.

2 years as an SEO is not long to develop the skills and experience interview panels may be looking for. I know people who were SEOs for a decade before applying for G7. They took level transfers at SEO level to build breadth and depth.

What you may need to do is take a break and focus on your current role and work out what job you want to do and whether a level transfer to a different role will make you a better promotion prospect.

To feel dejected after only 2 interviews is pretty unreasonable. That’s not many at all. Have you asked for specific feedback after those interviews? Have you asked if you were over the line or not?

There are a whole tonne of reasons why you might not have got that job - you could have been over the line but someone else was a better fit for that specific job.

What were you doing before SEO? Were you external to the CS or an HEO? And policy HEO or non policy role? If external, recruiters to G7 might just feel you don’t have the breadth of CS experience to manage at G7 yet.

I am a G7 equivalent in a non-GS government body, recently applied for a CS G7 role so a sideways move and never even heard anything back!

Have you side stepped at all? Policy advisors are generalist and breadth of experience is often favoured over purely depth.

A few months of job searching is nothing really in the CS. Took me 6 months recently to secure a new role (also policy advisor) and that was through reserve list. Consider a side ways move if it doesn't work out, but try not to take it personally as everything else you've been doing seems to be right.

Is it possible you're coming across as focused on the grade rather than the role?

I'm a Grade 6 and I'm seeing a lot of this at the moment, I think due to the cost of living. The concern is that if candidates aren't truly interested in the job, they'll disappear pretty quickly.

I'd ask for feedback, do some interviewing as a panel member for HEOs or other SEOs if possible and focus on finding a job you really want and are aligned to as opposed to a grade you really want.

Good luck!

I have just secured my G7 and I’ve been an SEO for 15yrs! 2 children and a serious health issue slowed me down but you’ve not been applying for too long so don’t feel too dejected. I know that it’s difficult as it’s so disappointing to get that rejection. I had one rejection but I have waited a long time before applying and think I was overly ready with a lot of experience. Use the feedback, but don’t worry too much about negative as my feedback for my 1st one said I needed more SEO postings before I’d get a G7 and I got it on the next interview, who thought I was a solid candidate. Every recruiter is different. Are you applying for the right role?

The jump between SEO and Grade 7 is one of the biggest. Are the roles you are going for related to your current work or are you looking for something different?

I'm a grade 6 and have done lots of recruitment. It's generally pretty obvious if someone is applying for the grade rather than the role (not saying that is you, but could it be coming across that way?) Also with people concerned that the cuts could lead to a potential recruitment freeze, I'm seeing a lot bigger number of applicants for roles - presumably people want to move in case it's a lot harder to move for the next few years. It could just be a numbers game?

Are you in a big or small department?

I’m a grade 7. If you’re getting interviews but not offers it sounds like it’s interview technique rather than your behaviours that might be the hurdle. One thing I’ve always been told has set me apart as a candidate is the evaluation I add to my behaviours at interview - so after explaining the result as per STAR, I always add “reflecting on that, I think I did x strongly and could develop y…” or “if I were to do this again I would…”

@WWYD3 Thanks for the feedback. That's a good point that maybe I'm coming across too focused on the grade and not the role. Do you have any suggestions to rectify this? I do talk about the role a lot in the interviews, my motivations for applying, etc. etc.

@GuidingSpirit Thanks for your comment. What are some of the ways candidates come across as they're focussed more on the grade rather than the role?

Can I join this thread? I’m in the same position and have just taken a sideways move as I thought I was coming across as more about the Grade than the role.

@StellaGibson2022 a sideways move is really sensible, a lot of people see it as not progressing rather than a step up. When you move as an experienced SEO you can hit the ground running and can really maximise the new role. It also gives you a lot more examples for interviews.

@savebuckbeak I do talk about the role a lot in the interviews, my motivations for applying, etc. etc. That is possibly one reason why you are not successful at interview, is this.in response to a warm up question? Or are you weaving it into responses so not actually answering the question?

@seemsikeaniceday I mention it when specifically asked about my motivations for applying etc. - not just randomly!

I work in a similar kind of public sector role .
I would say you need to keep your spirits up and get the volume of applications out. So much of this is luck and who the other candidates are, it doesn't necessarily reflect on your or your abilities.
I recently was on an interview panel for equivalent of a G6 post and one of the applicants, who on paper had the weakest profile of the four interviewed candidates, did well in the interview when, bizarrely, the other three bombed when they should have done much better . So he got the job because the others didn't pass the interview and it was a massive jump for him (he basically skipped a grade).
A lot of good advice above too. Have you asked to do the Crossing Thresholds course? You could find it useful. A lot about managing profiles and positioning yourself for your next job.

OK, but you said you talk about it a lot, my advice would be to keep it brief. If they want more detail they will ask.

In my experience a panel starts with a soft opening question, such as what interests you about the job, to let people settle in. Interviewees who give lengthy replies take up their interview time allowing less time for “scorable” questions. Just keep it brief.

Are you a line manager OP? I'm CS but not currently going for promotion myself but SEO colleagues of mine have found it hard to get any higher without some management experience.

2 years in an SEO role doesn't seem that long before going for Grade 7, most people I know have stayed at SEO for a fair bit longer than that before getting a promotion. Have you considered a sideways move to get more breadth of experience?

@seemsikeaniceday I hope you are right but this is not my first sideways move and have been an SEO for nearly 12 years. The past 4 years I feel I have completely wasted as I’ve worked in a badly managed part of CS and despite feeding back, asking for feed back, trying to work strategically and looking for opportunities to build behaviours I feel I have de-skilled. I’m feeling pretty low tbh!

Do you have a mentor? They can really help you focus on what you need to be doing and help pull out good examples for applications.

Are you London based? If so, the fact they aren’t running the Grad scheme should mean more G7 opportunities over the next few years.

The last 4 years won’t have been wasted, but what you may have learned is what not to do.

Look at the new job as a new start, almost act as a G7 by thinking of things before your G7 does and, if appropriate, doing them. Don’t undermine but upwards manage your G7, it’s hard to explain but make your G7s life easier and you will be given the opportunities that make good examples for applications.

Keep looking for G7 roles, but be very selective and only go for the ones you really want.

Hi all! I know this thread is from a while back but also wanted to ask - is there any specific training, certifications, learning or anything you could recommend? Obviously I am doing everything possible in my role to get more experience etc but any ideas for any formal or even informal learning would be really helpful.

@savebuckbeak you are not hearing what I am trying to tell you. Focus on your job, not the tick boxes you think will get you a promotion.

Do you have tasks you’d rather not do? do you have tasks you don’t know how to do? If you get through your tasks do you offer to take some of your managers work? Do you think ahead for your manager and make their life easier?

If you answer yes to the first two and no to the second two then you have scope in your current role to gain more knowledge and experience.

Talk to your LM and ask them to help you set up some mock interviews so you can practise.

Really interesting thread. I'm a grade 7 and I was an SEO for 12 years. My roles during that time were largely policy but I also did an ops and delivery post too. During those 11 years I built up experience of policy development and delivery and the span of activity that covers, running a consultation, being part of a bill team, financial management of projects worth several million, intergovernmental negotiations and line management of big and small teams, some of which threw up some very challenging to navigate issues. This breadth and depth of experience stood me in good stead when I eventually decided to make the leap to G7 because I had so much to draw on.

My first thought on reading your post OP was that I can't see how 2 years at SEO would give you the breadth and depth of experience required to hit the ground running at G7. Are you clear on what the core skills are which are required to operate as a G7 in the areas in which you're applying? If you are clear, can you demonstrate them all with some really robust examples which stand up to scrutiny when interviewers start to scratch beneath the surface? I find that when I interview these days, a lot of candidates come along with high level, impressive sounding statements, but when you ask follow up questions, there's no real substance there - usually due to a lack of experience. Not saying that this is you - but may be worth thinking about if you haven't already.

DH started as an AO and is now a grade 6, working his way up over 20+ years. Ones of the hardest jumps was SEO to G7, it took him ages and eventually it was through being on temporary promotion and then applying for that role when it was advertised as a substantive post. The next step up to G6 was really quick.

always ask for feedback after interviews, preferably a proper discussion rather than a general email. And go for the job not the grade. Keep going and remember it takes ages sometimes.