To give up on Grade 7 applications (civil service)

[savebuckbeak]

I've been an SEO in a policy role in the CS for about 2 years and have been applying for Grade 7 roles for a few months now both internally through EOIs and externally. Had 2 unsuccessful interviews and just feeling very dejected. I've got mentors I work through stuff with, get involved in a lot of corporate/strategy stuff, have refined my behaviours examples hundreds of times, gotten advice on them, prepared strengths answers and generally done A LOT of career building stuff. In interviews I talk about leadership, strategy, work programmes I've led and delivered through others, how I've challenged and negotiated and convinced stakeholders to do x y z. Literally don't know what to do going forward and any nuggets of advice about any of this very welcome.

The 1% was just a rough figure based on 30+ years observation may be higher. What you have to remember is the difference between London and the regions and department structure. I’ve worked in departments with Regional offices of c250-350 staff with 1 G6 post in charge of the whole office, and possibly 1 or 2 G7 posts. With that ratio unless you are very exceptional or able to move to London it’s essentially deadman’s shoes and people can be in the same grade for years,

London is different, there will be differences between the two types of offices. Offices that deliver to the public e.g job centres, DVLA test centres which may have similar structures to regional offices but CS have the ability to move to other London locations and so have a far bigger pool of promotion opportunities.

The second are the Head Offices, which depending on the department can be combined with public delivery functions,. These typically have a lot flatter structure with many more G7, G6 and SCS posts. These also benefit from being in close proximity and so there are far more vacancies and opportunities. You also have a higher flow between public, voluntary and private sectors and opportunities like loans, secondments and TP.

If you only work in London you can get a false sense of what most Civil Servants experience. c75% of CS roles are outside London.

One reality you may not be aware of is the special treatment for those on grad/fast track schemes, the extra assistance and the behind scenes horse trading. I’ve known really capable people not get an interview/job because the SCS in charge of a scheme insists a job is ring-fenced for a grad so their success rate looks better. This makes it harder for those following a more traditional route to get promotion. Unfair, you bet, but why risk your own career as you climb the grades the pool gets smaller and peoples memories are long.

I’ve certainly seen grads with a plan to go back to their home town stymied because they rushed to G7 then G6 in London then find they can’t get a level G6 role in their home region as they are no competition for local long standing G7s.

i’m on my 6th department in over 30 years, I’ve worked in the regions and in London, I’ve worked on cross department roles working with peers in other departments to deliver cross government so,unions. I’ve also been involved in recruitment and promotion panels in a range of departments.

I should have said - I'm very much in the Westminster bubble, working in a policy role in a major ministerial department. So I suppose what I've observed is others in similar positions and spaces where it's very much the norm to progress to Grade 7 after 2 or fewer years as an SEO>

Exactly my point.

This is why I and others with wider experience are clearly stating to the OP and others

• stop focusing on tick box activities


• ask manager/other manager to provide coaching on interview technique


• focus on doing your job and getting the most out of it


• consider a level transfer to broaden your skills and knowledge


• 2 years experience and 2 interviews is not the point to give up on G7.

Civil service sounds pretty old fashioned. Are you desperate to stay, OP? Sounds like they want your right arm to get a G7. Doesn't your department or line manager help support you and find you something more challenging too, given the size of the CS?

If you're getting interviews and it's not ending up in an offer over a period of time something isn't working. I'd consider looking at other employers probably, sounds as though you might be a better fit somewhere with a more modern and less hierarchical structure.

I’m not sure any of this conjecture is particularly helpful to OP who feels ready for promotion and is seeking advice on how to get there. But I do agree that this isn’t the point to give up on promotion or to leave the civil service. OP, what’s your manager like? Would they be helpful with interview technique, or is there someone else senior in your network who would? I’ve had lots of mock interviews when I’ve been preparing for promotion - that might help you get some feedback on whether interview technique is the issue.

Same here although I’m based outside of London, and while I’m a good performer I certainly don’t think I’m top-1%-exceptional. You don’t and shouldn’t need to be to get a grade 7 role in policy after two years at SEO, especially in a department like this. (We actually don’t even have such a thing as SEO, so obviously it’s not universally considered essential to have long term experience there).